Diane Riemer ⋅ Andover, MA Brandeis International School of Business ⋅ 25 years experience

Hi Andrew
You have some good advice here already; but I would like to expand a little based on my experience having worked with MBA candidates pursuing careers in consulting. Networking is absolutely fundamental to consulting since the "next" consulting contract comes from a satisfied client. The interpersonal relationships that develop over the course of an engagement are crucial. While it is true that many consulting firms recruit at their target schools, it is not unheard of for firms to hire MBAs outside of this process. (My school was not a target school for any of the big firms, but we were successful in preparing students to be competitive and win places at the top firms.) Cold calls for an informational interview may be a strategy for you, but keep in mind that consultants are on the road 4 days a week with Fridays for catching up on paperwork, emails and phonecalls. (Are you sure that's the life style you want now - you will be asked sob e convincing in your answer) The fact that you are willing to take the risk of cold calling them will not go unnoticed. Start networking now! Use Linked In to find people at consulting firms; if you can find other vets at consulting firms, so much the better. HR is a strategic partner in many consulting firms and is often proactively involved in the screening, hiring and decision process. Don't start with consulting companies' college recruiters, but don't overlook them either, The case interview is critical - David Orhval http://www.mbacase.com/t-case-interview-coaching.aspx and Marc Consentino https://www.casequestions.com/about.cfm are leaders in case interview prep. Try to find other students to practice casing with - you can do it via Skype or Google+, You will want to have analyzed and presented about 20 cases before you get to a live case interview. Many consulting firms have interview prep sections on their web pages, be sure to check these out. Back to basics about being competitive. Be clear about why you want to be a consultant and the practice within consulting that you want to break into. Be sure you are expressing this in terms of the benefit to the employer, rather than the literal reason of why you want to be a consultant. Research the firms on your target list deeply and know why you want to work for them - again not the literal answer, but an answer that illustrates benefits to the firm.

Diane (ENTJ!)

Craig Bush ⋅ Boston, MA IBM ⋅ 11 years experience

Ha! I'm an ENTP, so I should have no business as a consultant. I hate rules and love abstraction... which is weird since I actually liked the military structure. Go figure. Apparently I should have been an inventor or a comedian. :)

ENTJ's are prime for leadership in companies. They almost universally rule the top positions.

As a consultant, we are formally trained to size up people very quickly and then change our approach based on the task at hand. Accenture had a very interesting quad-chart approach which was simplified and easy to use. See if you can find it online. For some reason, I never kept the slide deck.

Andrew Lewis ⋅ Alexandria, VA U.S. Army, Staff Sergeant ⋅ 8 years served

Craig - very interesting about Accenture's quad-chart (I was unable to find it, btw). I think it's fascinating that personal approaches based on personality types can have such a dynamic effect on the relationship, as seen from a consulting perspective. It sounds like the ENTP would almost be better at the helm of a company than an ENTJ, since they probably tend to have more of a strategic and long term outlook. For our first MBA leadership class we took leadership self-assessments from the Effectiveness Institute, which I found really helpful, though not as good or comprehensive as the Briggs-Myers tests.

Diane - Great to see another ENTJ! I'm going to take your advice and really start networking, and what you said about expressing my qualifications in terms of benefiting the employer, was eye opening. I'm certainly going to adapt my pitch accordingly. At this point I'm looking into consulting exclusively for federal practices, as the travel is not as frequent, and most practices are right here in my area (DC). As a side note, a recent graduate from BU's MBA program is a friend of mine and helped me extensively with my resume and purpose statements when I applied to b-school. She got into a great rotational program post-MBA, so whatever you're doing out there is incredibly effective! In addition to federal consulting, I'm also considering applying for a post-MBA rotation in industry; certainly exploring all avenues at this point. Thanks for your thoughtful and very helpful response.

Andrew Lewis ⋅ Alexandria, VA U.S. Army, Staff Sergeant ⋅ 8 years served

Thanks, Craig. I'm going to apply your advice and brush up on financial modeling as well as take a Negotiations class (my MBA program offers one as an elective). I'm familiar with Briggs-Myers (ENTJ here!) and I think it's interesting that you mentioned personality approaches as a key skill in consulting. Thanks again!

Craig Bush ⋅ Boston, MA IBM ⋅ 11 years experience

Andrew,

I've have a doctorate in biochemistry and I had prior consulting experience before applying to Deloitte, so my path was different than yours will be. I didn't start out as a generalist. But, having said that, the healthcare consulting world is so vast that one can say I did generalize in strategy and operations in healthcare and life sciences.

But true generalists are those who get an MBA, which is good for you. By that I mean you can work in multiple industries because your degree allows you to take principled frameworks and apply those business theories to any number of problems. In business school they teach you theory and frameworks, which works everywhere. In that sense, you are more qualified than I am. I focus on drug discovery, which again is huge, but in terms of the business universe is small.

If you have the opportunity to take a class on financial modeling, I think that might be the single greatest skill set to go into extremely lucrative consulting and banking fields. Also, marketing analysis, negotiations, and perhaps even psychology. All of which are huge.

Learn how to gauge people's personalities. Study the Briggs Myers personality continuum. In consulting, one learns how to approach different personalities and what they value and hold dear.

Cheers, Craig

Andrew Lewis ⋅ Alexandria, VA U.S. Army, Staff Sergeant ⋅ 8 years served

Po,
Thanks for the great advice, this has been most helpful - I will private message you to stay in touch.

Po Wong ⋅ Orlando, FL Johnson & Johnson (retired) ⋅ 40 years experience

Hi Andrew,
J&J has been top best companies. This year is rank #2 by Fortune Magazine but certainly explore many other good companies..

Check out other jobs in this link beyond Marketing. You never know some other functions such as logistic, Procurement…. may interest you. I was a guest speaker to a group of USC Finance MBA recruits we bused to San Jose on Procurement, global category management. Half of them want to know lots more about Procurement after the session (feel bad for the J&J Finance leadership recruiting team) so you never limit yourself.

Also let me know if you apply any J&J jobs. I may able to track down the hiring manager to give them a push (as long as I have not yet retire:-)). If you like a private follow up conference call (done a few already), we can arrange through “private message” at this site.

Good luck!
Po

Andrew Lewis ⋅ Alexandria, VA U.S. Army, Staff Sergeant ⋅ 8 years served

Po,
Thank you for the helpful response. I'm certainly willing to do an internship or work in what we call "grunt positions" to gain valuable experience. I've been wanting to learn more about J&J opportunities, so your link comes at a perfect time. I will check it out - thank you!

Po Wong ⋅ Orlando, FL Johnson & Johnson (retired) ⋅ 40 years experience

Hi Andrew,
Thanks for your service!
Craig provided some real good practical suggestion.

MBA today is like Bachelor degree in the 90’s. There are so many out there looking for jobs. 80% of professional job in my company and others (even entry/ mid- level) are MBAs from Hass, Stanford, Kellogg……Many inform me most of their second year is preparing for interview and network. They do have advantage vs. on-line.

The network idea is great. There are business organizations, MBA alumni monthly meetings in various cities. Check out DC charter of various professional organization meetings? Linkedin postings…..

With the major competition of available MBAs, your idea of intern is great. I can’t say enough about just "getting the foot in the door". It is hard for some people to accept a lower level job (they think they are better). But what good is it when you have no chance to show your skills, performance, leadership….when you are looking in from outside. I have seen so many people, including myself, moving up quickly (if they are as good as they claim and produce significant business results once they get in). For consulting, robust, concise communication and presentation skills is a must.

Below is J&J link for marketing job. We do hire summer interns in all functions like finance, Procurement…Check out frequently since the posting update daily…Check out other companies also.

http://jobs.jnj.com/go/marketing-jobs-at-johnson-&-johnson/358361/?utm_source=careersite&utm_campaign=HomepageFeaturedJobsMarketing

Good luck!

Andrew Lewis ⋅ Alexandria, VA U.S. Army, Staff Sergeant ⋅ 8 years served

Tom - thanks for all that detailed and helpful information!

Craig - thank you for your response as well. I live near DC so business mixers would definitely be an option, and one I hadn't place a high enough emphasis on, evidently. I'm going to put a few of them into the schedule. Also, I hadn't really heard of the cold-call option; very interesting, and something I will probably attempt.

I actually do think it's fair that full-time MBA students have an advantage over online students. They invest in the opportunity cost and dedicate two years of their life to becoming business leaders; I think that entitles them to a leg up on post-MBA opportunities. That being said, I'm hoping to take the extra steps necessary to stay competitive with my full-time MBA counterparts.

Craig, are there any soft skills or elective MBA courses you would recommend to better prepare myself for consulting? Also, can you give some examples of how your consulting position in the healthcare sector differs from government consulting? Did you start out as a generalist in Deloitte, or did you specialize in healthcare/tech right away? Trying to gather as much information as I can at this point to really narrow my focus and goals.

Thanks again.

Craig Bush ⋅ Boston, MA IBM ⋅ 11 years experience

Hi Andrew,

Great questions. I can answer it from personal experience having interviewed and hired MBA students.

It is true you will be, at face value, less competitive than those completing full time MBA programs. It's just the nature of the hiring market. There are so many MBA programs now that finding real talent is difficult for HR groups since they need to wade through hundreds, if not thousands of resumes. More often than not, they'll simply make a rule that they'll only look at resumes from XYZ schools just to get a handle around the sheer quantity of work ahead. Is it fair? No, it isn't. Does it mean that at the end of the day you'll be any less productive than someone that graduated from HBS or Wharton? Perhaps, but maybe not.

In your case, your best bet is to do some old fashioned networking in person. If you live near a city they routinely have mixers where students and so forth can meet business leaders. I don't know where you live, but the larger cities have them all the time... every month or so. If you know anyone in business reconnect with them and just ask them if you could intern. Also, you can simply cold call businesses. You'd be surprised how far you can go by just showing up, looking good, and asking for a job in person. I got a job doing that... I think my gumption impressed them and they were a little taken back. I was hired that week.

I interviewed and got into Deloitte before going to Huron. I was told to prepare for a case interview. I would recommend getting very, very good at doing these. There are tons of materials online to help prepare... and prepare you must. They are hard by design and you'd be surprised how many really smart people think they can wing it and then end up looking like idiots in comparison to others who prepared.

The answer to what employers are looking for shouldn't surprise you. I want to see people that can communicate, reason, and defend an argument. I want to see people that can take a vague or ill-defined problem and reason through a solution and then defend their position under criticism. I look for presence... that is how they carry themselves, how the communicate, how they handle pressure. Again, this shouldn't be a surprise.

Hope that helps.

Tom Cal, CFA ⋅ San Francisco, CA Army Veteran, Investment Manager ⋅ 25 years experience

Andrew,
Great questions.

* Have you requested a one-on-one mentor from ACP? see http://acp-usa.org/Mentoring_Program

* Utilize your school's alumni network, and direct your question to alumni working at firms in which you are interested.

* Proactively reach out to potential mentors and ask them to answer your questions in this forum or privately by email or phone. Here are several mentoring programs.

9 Mentoring Programs for Veterans and Spouses - Do You Know of Others? Manager's Choice

Here are programs that offer Veterans and spouses of Veterans "one-on-one" as well as "group" mentoring. These programs all offer the opportunity for mentoring in-person and also utilizing phone, email and online communication.

Please let us know if you know of other MENTORING programs and organizations for Veterans and spouses of Veterans.

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Programs for Veterans and Spouses of Veterans that offer mentor-directed matching and networking:

* Veteran Mentor Network (group on LinkedIn)
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/Veteran-Mentor-Network-4466143/about
Over 33,000 members located throughout the world in a wide variety of functional roles, industries and organizations. VMN offers online discussions and also the ability to network and seek out advisors and mentors utilizing the free LinkedIn Advanced people search tool.

https://www.linkedin.com/vsearch/p?openAdvancedForm=true&locationType=I&countryCode=us&f_FG=4466143&rsid=337841291399568019979&orig=ADVS#!

* MC4 Military-Civilian Career Coaching Connection (MC4)(group on LinkedIn)
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/MilitaryCivilian-Career-Coaching-Connection-MC4-3722272/about#!
Over 3,700 members located throughout the world in a wide variety of functional roles, industries and organizations. Offers online discussions and also the ability to network and seek out advisors and mentors utilizing the free LinkedIn Advanced people search tool.
https

https://www.linkedin.com/vsearch/p?openAdvancedForm=true&locationType=I&countryCode=us&f_FG=3722272&rsid=337841291399568063911&orig=ADVS#!

* ACP-AdvisorNet online Q&A focused mentoring program
https://acp-advisornet.org/
Online Q&A and private email/messaging. There are more than 1,600 advisors listed in the ACP AdvisorNet Advisor+ directory.

* eMentorProgram.org (U.S. Chamber of Commerce Foundation's HIRING OUR HEROES Initiative.)
http://ementorprogram.org/about
Self-directed matching. Approximately 425 mentors available.
" The Veteran eMentor Program leverages the internet to create a dynamic information sharing, learning and support community that extends far beyond the veteran's current network. Veteran protégés can receive personalized job search/career guidance, advice, support and inspiration from more experienced veterans, career mentors and veteran-friendly employers."

* MedTech and BioTech Veterans Program (MVP)
mvpvets.org
"The mission of MVP is to, via a 4-step process, identify thousands of military veterans, readying them for meaningful employment within a Life Science organization."
http://investors.abiomed.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=823410

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Programs for Veterans and Spouses of Veterans that offer assigned matching with mentor input:

* American Corporate Partners (ACP) assigned mentoring program
acp-usa.org
ACP staff match Veterans with mentors from 56 large corporations and organizations. Corporations and organization pay ACP a fee to participate.

* GallantFew
gallantfew.org
"GallantFew's mission is to reduce US Army Ranger veteran unemployment, homelessness and eliminate Ranger veteran suicide by a unique program of one-on-one mentoring by a Ranger veteran, now successful in civilian business, with a Ranger veteran just departed active duty."

* Helmets to Hardhats
http://www.helmetstohardhats.org/#!
"Helmets to Hardhats is a national, nonprofit program that connects National Guard, Reserve, retired and transitioning active-duty military service members with skilled training and quality career opportunities in the construction industry."

Programs Limited to Women Veterans and Spouses of Veterans
* Joining Forces for Women Veterans and Military Spouses Mentoring Plus®
http://www.joiningforcesmentoringplus.org/#!