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How do you connect with and network into companies when their recruiters are nonresponsive?

Veteran

Casper Mireles Virginia Beach, VA

I've had this problem with several companies, but in particular, with a (large) company I am very interested in. Unfortunately, their veteran recruiter is unresponsive. I've reached out to other recruiters within that company and gotten zero responses. I've gone as far as reaching out to fellow veterans and had limited success. I'm not asking for a job or interview (I want to earn that). I'm just trying to establish connections with people so that they can get to know me on a professional level and as I begin to apply, they might be willing to advocate for me with hiring managers. What am I doing wrong or have any other veterans experienced this problem?

31 January 2020 38 replies Networking

Answers

Advisor

Nicole Friesenhahn Flower Mound, TX

Hello!

While applying for job opportunities through traditional channels is good at times. It often helps to use your connections in getting your foot in the door. Think about who you have made connections with and who their connections might be. All you need is one connection or one email address to get your foot in the door and then you can really show off your skill set. Be persistent! If the connection or secondary connection doesn't respond on the first try, keep trying.

30 March 2020 Helpful answer

Advisor

Kyle Nevala Saint Michael, MN

Warning: this is very long - and hopefully worth it.

I want you to know you are not alone. I'll also tell you to not take it personally and please do not think there is anything wrong with you or what you are doing. Your path has been a logical one. I'll try to give my experience and advice in a way that helps. Also keep this in mind, this is my knowledge base, experiences and advice. It's only coming from me. It comes from many, many years of looking at this subject from all angles (hiring, looking for a new role, and dealing with many HR people). It's not intended to depress rather give you an understanding to do things differently. Others have stated this path, networking. I'll try to express why.

This may sound a little harsh and bitter, but the civilian job market has become absolutely ridiculous. The introduction of the Applicant Tracking System (ATS) fulfilled the "there's an app for that" mentality and has taken the human touch out of the process. The hiring manager and HR recruiter fill out a form that is full of "key words". The ATS ranks the application based on how well the resume matches the programmed parameters, i.e. key words. The HR recruiter will normally review the applications (resumes), yet if there are a lot, only the ones that rank high (say +75%) on the key-word match. If there are fewer resumes for an open role, the recruiter will look at them all. They are looking to see how well the education and recent or current experiences match the open role, not assessing how well the applicant could do the role with cross-functional skills. This is a simple process for low level or entry level roles, and quite complex for experienced and/or highly visible or critical to the organization roles. Since HR doesn't live the job they are recruiting for, there is back and forth with the hiring manager. Rarely HR presents any and all that represent some sort of fit, and usually it's the ones that score higher in an ATS match. ATS is a filtering tool because time is considered a precious resource for managers. Personally, I feel I am a better filter and have always looked at all applications. Sometimes it's been hundreds. I know hiring is very important to a company, so I feel looking at everyone is important. I gave it the time it deserved.

Talking with someone about an open role in an organization does happen, but not in a straight forward fashion. In my opinion, HR is not a pathway in the job search or hiring process unless you're a very young adult, with a degree, and even better an advanced degree or an experienced individual jumping to the same role from another company, with no non-compete issues. HR isn't even a group to target if you simply want an informational meeting. HR is involved in the hiring process, but should be looked at as more administrative in nature. They should not be considered, in any way, to be the 1st contact to gain info about an open role or the company in general. HR is usually the 1st [phone] interview. Their role is the initial screening role. Why do you want to work for this company? Tell me about yourself? Why do you feel you are a good fit? These are important questions to assess if you are an emotionally intelligent human.

Know this: the primary role of the HR department is to protect the company. Having a military background, I'm sure you can relate to how you are being treated when you see HR in this manner. Their primary mission is to protect the company. Extraneous information is filtered out (assessed for immediate threat and if none is found, not addressed at all, and keep looking for additional threats). You asking for info is assessed as non-threatening to the company, so you are filtered out, i.e., ignored. If you were to be assessed as extremely beneficial to the company's mission, HR might see this and contact you (see ATS stuff above). This is usually done after you applied to an open role. I hope you now understand what's going on. Like I said, it's ridiculous, but it's true. Then it gets even more ridiculous...

Here's what I've seen (in general. yes, there are outliers).
After you submit an application, HR will only contact you in 2 situations:
1) you are 22-25 years old with a degree (or advanced degree) that is relevant to the role and do not need sponsorship or
2) your education and 5-15 yrs of experience matches the role exactly (EXACTLY) and there is no non-complete scenario
(appears rather administrative, doesn't it?)

After 15 years professional experience, we are either very close to or are over 40. This is the new ageism threshold. The opportunity for a new role outside of a company primarily (99.999% of the time) happens through your network. The opportunity for a new role inside the company is much better, but you have to be better liked by upper management than the 30-something who's the "up-and-comer"...who's typically a Type-A personality, and may or may not have the smarts to go with it. The more experienced worker is looked as adding immediate impact to the organization. This could be done through a resume and cover letter, but sometimes people lie, so success in this path is rare. Having a trusted or respected someone say you can provide immediate impact offers so much more. This trusted or respected someone doesn't have to be a company employee, they simply have to provide this viewpoint to the person (or someone close to the person) making the hiring decision. Now-a-days, there is usually a team that also weighs in. Interviewing with the team is also normal. The group usually says yes or no if they feel the person is will fit in.

In your situation, here's my advice. Look for any pathway where you can get a contact at a company that is not HR related:
- of course, LinkedIn: 1st tier, and primarily 2nd tier (those connected to your 1st) contacts. Your 1st tier can introduce you to the 2nd tier. Ask. Did I just use the word Ask? Yes. Ask! You are networking. This takes effort. Clicking an 'invite' or 'connect' button is not asking.
- if you are/were in a role where you have access to vendors or contractors or the like, or you have their contact info (phone or email, not LinkedIn), remind them who you are and politely say you are transitioning to the civilian job market and if they happen to know anyone at company XYZ. People usually like to help those they know or can use the situation to their advantage later down the road (you scratch my back, I scratch yours).
- did you get certifications of any sort from civilians instructors? Contact these instructors and ask if they know anyone in your target company. They will help. They usually have a large list of contacts. Tell them your story and you are transitioning to a role where the certification is utilized.
- asking for this level of help (looking for a job) can feel embarrassing and self-diminishing. Yes, get flushed from embarrassment because you have to ask. I will tell you most people know what this is like. It's an active part of our society now.
- Keep this in mind. Your path is different than most. Transitioning from military to civilian happens for a very small percent of the overall job searchers. The civilian roles look for those who can provide immediate impact. Since you're not a kid, you won't be looked as having "potential". The thought of, I've done this, this, this, and this, I should be able to do that and that, no problem, I'm no dummy, is a 'potential' thought. I've done "this" here, the company will look for you to do "this" for them.
- The only way you will get looked for potential is to have someone in your court saying you would do a great job doing that potential.
- You will be looked at as what can this individual do for me. If you have heard the phase "what's in it for me", this is how you need to address how you look at yourself from the company's point of view. This is very different than most non-political-related military roles and units. The unit is a unit. I may not like some of the people, but we are a unit. This, we are a unit mentality, is wonderful to find in the civilian sector, but few and far between. Most are now out for themselves. Most civilians, especially the younger ones, don't comprehend the concept of unit loyalty. It's a shame this has been lost.
- If you feel your professional skill-set needs updating, go to school. I'm graduating with my Masters at 47yrs old. I'm doing this to get a job. I'm not getting the job without the advanced degree. My undergrad is Mechanical Engineering. Wow, huh? I've been interviewed by 25 year-olds who received the exact same job I'm applying for right out of their undergrad program. It's hard not to talk past them in interview conversation. What's wrong with this situation you ask? I lost my network. I'm starting over. Same job, same pay as the 25 year old with a bachelor degree. I have 20+ years industry experience and a Master's. I'm telling you this to reinforce 3 things:
1) a network is necessary, it's not a luxury
2) if you have to start over, don't feel like you are alone.
3) harsh again, sorry, if you are not getting any responses, and don't change your approach, nothing will materialize. You next job will be at Lowes or something like that.
- get an updated or new certification and use the instructor's or school contact list to try and gain a contact at the target company (see similar comment above)
- look at LinkedIn profiles for the type of position you feel you should be doing and at the company you'd like to work at. Look for what professional organizations these people belong to. If it makes sense, join, go to the meetings, get to know the people. Today, very few people will take a chance and stick their neck out for a stranger. You are not asking for a job, rather telling your story and what would be good to have for a role at their company. Remember, professional organization meetings are usually specialized, so you'd be looking for information for skills/jobs in that specialized area. Be cordial, and don't spend a lot of time talking to the company recruiters that go unless someone who's not HR introduces you. Ask the recruiter if they can introduce you to the role specialists. You are there to gain knowledge and contacts in that specialized area. The recruiter is not that person.
- do the same in general conversation with your network. Ask your military network to introduce you to their civilian network and go from there. LinkedIn is useful, but isn't your only contact database. Tap into whatever you have. Getting a message from an old friend is always fun. You are not a dead-beat who can't get a job, you are transitioning from the military to civilian world. There is a small wow factor to this. It's also a large transition milestone in one's life. Most understand this.
- If you choose to go back to school, your classmates will be a resource. Unfortunately, proving yourself to this new, and typically younger, group will take some time. For, me, this is how it's working. I had to wait 2 years to get through the program for any company to take notice. Now they are, and I am only being noticed because my classmates have my back. It takes time. Fortunately, I'm patient (yet frustrated).
- tap into veteran-based programs like IVMF O2O. This is a free, application-acceptance based certification program. Unfortunately, nothing in this pathway panned out for me (back to my age and lack of network), but it is a resource. At the end of this program, there is a nation-wide network of veterans within many knowledge areas.
- contact VA rehab assistance and see if there is anything down this path. In your area, there may be some networking ability. No promises though.

If you don't know what you want to do when you grow up, you have some soul searching to do. My advice for this:
Ask yourself what you could see yourself doing for the next 20 years. Be realistic:
- your not young anymore. Do you want to take a very fast-paced role and compete with the younger crowd? How long would you last? 20 years? If you're out in 3-5 years, you're back where you started.
- what type of role can utilize your knowledge as basis? Meaning, you would tap into your knowledge to apply it in a different way. Example, a fighter pilot could use the practical use knowledge of the person to plane interface and be a designer or programmer for that area. A supply sergeant could use that knowledge to run a logistic warehouse (huge in the US now). A Medic could use that knowledge and be a biomedical engineer. Notice all these would require a new learned skill-set (degree). This knowledge helps a lot with applying real-life to better comprehend education concepts, for those who don't memorize very well.

Using a trusted partner is helpful in soul searching. If you have one that will not be judge-mental in any way, use that person. Others close to you usually have a good bead on who you are and what you like to do. This may differ from your own thoughts, so listen and offer gratitude for their input.

If you made it this far, hopefully it helps. I don't believe there is a simple answer to this. I also don't believe it should be this hard.

God Speed.

17 April 2020 Helpful answer

Advisor

Melinda Long West Des Moines, IA

I'm a recruiter for Wells Fargo, we have an in-house military recruiting team that can assist you if you're trying to get into the financial sector. They can help with the resume to bridge the current resume and how you can be considered for positions in highly regulated environments or I would be happy to review your resume.

To qualify for WF openings it's required to match every required qualification at or above the years required of the role and prove that through the resume to be considered.

I would be happy to get you in touch with one of our military recruiters inhouse our goal is to have 20K veterans so it's a huge focus for us and I personally had a very high # of veteran hires personally. Within Wells Fargo there are several openings that a veteran could transition into such as Operational Risk Consultant, Business Initiative Consultant, Project Management, Tech Relationship Manager.

Depending on your military experience we would need to assess what may work for you. Feel free to send your resume to me direct at Melinda.long@wellsfargo.com or visit our site for reviewing openings and job titles to consider. https://www.wellsfargo.com/careers/

9 April 2020 Helpful answer

Advisor

Colin Carner Seattle, WA

Reaching out to recruiters directly is often a waste of time. Use your military/school/social connections to find people who work at your target company, preferably in your desired job. Ask for some time through a LinkedIn message to discuss the company, the person’s path there, and thoughts on getting your resume in front of a hiring manager. If you don’t have a 1st connection, reach out to a 2nd after communicating with your mutual connection and asking for an intro. At the end of the call, ask if the employee would be willing to refer you.

Recruiters often do not respond directly to candidates. Getting a referral by engaging with current employees ensures a hiring manager will see your resume. Getting around the recruiters is the goal rather than speaking with them.

26 March 2020 Helpful answer

Advisor

Michael Stehn Alexandria, VA

Companies have Veteran recruiters to find the right people to fill positions, they are not there to help you navigate and network into the company. They are busy reading through hundreds if not thousands of resumes and LinkedIn profile looking for very specific skill sets.

If you want to know more about the company, gain insights and have a realistic shot at transitioning to a big company, I suggest networking with employees of that company. Who do you already know from your network that is working there? Do you know someone, who can introduce you to someone there? What do you have in common with those people. Use the network to ask questions, get a better understanding of what the company does. Are they even hiring? Do they need people with 20+ years experience? Once you get the answers to those questions, and if you feel comfortable, ask for a referral.

Most large companies hire by referral more than blindly. If you have a friend at that company and they refer you, they may also get a recruitment bonus, so there is something in it for them to help you.

Look, I'm not telling you not to contact recruiters, I'm just saying you may have a better chance approaching this from a different angle.

4 May 2020 Helpful answer

Advisor

Christopher Dilley Jacksonville, FL

Casper,

Shameless plug, but Johnson & Johnson is actively recruiting transitioning veterans. Check out www.careers.jnj.com. Also, feel free to send me a email if you would like your resume imputed into the JnJ system. Also, do not underestimate how powerful a referral from a employee can be. Best wishes with the transition
Chris
cdilley@its.jnj.com

26 March 2020 Helpful answer

Advisor

Jose Roman Norfolk, VA

Good Morning Casper,

Why do you believe you have to network with recruiters?

Imagine if you find mutual connections in an organization or industry that you're interested in via LinkedIn and having those connections advocating on your behalf? These are the type of connections that get you past the gate keepers and talking to the hiring managers and leaders with the positions to fill.

You can ask for and set up 'information interviews' opportunities to connect with someone and find out more about their company and their role.

4 May 2020 Helpful answer

Veteran

Michael Mallard Apo, AE

Hi Casper,

You've already received some great advice; I echo what many others have recommended - the best way to circumvent the challenges is to build an authentic connection with someone inside the firm you want. Toastmasters, networking events, industry-specific associations, etc. are all great ways to meet people. Linkedin is an amazing tool, it takes time to build relationships though. DM me if you need a sounding board. Hang in there, you'll get it!

Mike

23 April 2020 Helpful answer

Advisor

Victoria Heck Ashburn, VA

Hi Casper,
I looked at your LinkedIn profile (it's great btw), I think you might be a fit for one of our roles at Parsons in the DC area. It's for a Test & Eval position (R104612 on our website www.parsons.com/careers). I'll send you a LinkedIn message. My email is victoria.heck@parsons.com.

23 April 2020 Helpful answer

Advisor

Jeff Martin Ashburn, VA

I’d suggest that you network at the target company or industry. Use LinkedIn to find people already working there and reach out to them. Ask them the process they used to get hired and ask them to help you navigate the hiring process and if they are willing, ask them to submit you as a referral. These activities require much more time on your part but in my opinion would greatly increase your chances for success. Good luck!

Advisor

Arnie Scott Stratham, NH

Try the web site Jobcase.com It's slogan is "Facebook for Work".

Advisor

Chris McFarland Toms River, NJ

Yo Cap!
I came to understand pretty fast nearly ever HR person I ran across had the number 1 priority of helping the executives keep out of trouble so they didn't run amuck and do something foolish like discriminate or sexually harass someone, things that would get their employer in a heap of trouble and get them fired.
It's a pretty sure thing the 'Military' rep or recruiters you're dealing with are cast from the same mold, they know exactly how to coach the bosses to avoid doing anything foolish with a military veteran, especially a disabled decorated hero military veteran, that would get them in dutch with the congress or courts and break the law and get them fired.
So, this 'military recruiter' person has this role, a number 1 priority role, and understanding that going in is probably the very best bit of knowledge to know.
You may want to point out how you are e x a c t l y suited for this job or that job, slowly, clearly, so the message gets thru you're a serious candidate, use clear, concise, language, as few syllables as possible.
When they get the message, you'll get a call, and you'll know what to do.
You're gonna do great, all the best!

Advisor

Jo Prabhu San Rafael, CA

It is important to understand and distinguish the title of Headhunter vs Recruiter which are two very different roles. Companies spend thousands of dollars to post jobs and to pay Headhunters who are hired to sort, prequalify and fill those jobs with candidates who possess the necessary skills + experience required to perform the duties and responsibilities of each job. This is very different from the broadly used term 'Recruiters' which is better used for military type 'Recruitment' where 'networking' and other methods are used to gather and sign up applicants for various roles. And as for resumes, accuracy about your skills is key-and less is more. Todays computers don't look for fancy or pretty-but are programmed to identify and sort words and terms before they pop up on a head hunters screen. Its important for job seekers to read each job description thoroughly and apply only if you have the necessary skills-then you will not wait in vain or feel too disappointed for not receiving the call you were waiting for.

Advisor

Deb Yeagle Tampa, FL

Hi Casper!
Thanks for your service!
I've seen lots of companies adjust their recruiting methods since the pandemic, with many advertising "virtual" job fairs (events posted on Linked In), so don't give up. Adjust your networking with more emphasis on social media and direct phone calls if possible, but be patient and use this time for self-development if you can. Here is an interesting article on 9 Mistakes to Avoid during your job search at this time:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/josephliu/2020/04/20/recruiters-share-9-mistakes-job-seekers-are-making-amid-the-coronavirus-pandemic/#552602fdccba
Good luck and thanks again!
Deb

Advisor

Frank Forte Fayetteville, NC

Steve, I would consider expanding your net. If you are so focused on just one company it may not be the right time for them. Where else could you look? What are other firms that do similar work? Figure out how to get a position that may lead you in the direction of the industry you seek to be in.

Advisor

Ronald Waltz Fox River Grove, IL

What I would suggested is that you determine what phase of the business you are most suited for that you want to work in...Then go to LinkedIn and do research on who the key people are in that group and reach out to them by requesting a "connect" and send a message with it..If you can afford $50 might be worth the Premium package that allows 15 emails a month and you can also see who is looking at your sight..Trick is find a door in around the recruiters. Once you make a contact, even in another department from where you would like to go, most people will want to help out a veteran... Thanks for you service, hope this helps

Advisor

ROY VALE San Antonio, TX

Just double checking. Hope you made all your connections by now. Meanwhile, for you and others who may still be wondering about some alternatives to this question, I would recommend the following:

1 - Try 3 x 3 rule -- 3 emails, 3 texts, 3 phone calls - if nothing- move on
2- Find out who is in charge of Human Resources, Sales, Public Relations and Business Development - send them a friendly note that you have not had any success with their Veteran Contact Department, can you count on them for a contact resolution
3 - Post your resume based on your strengths that may fit the company you are trying to connect with. Not necessary to mention Military or veteran on the onset - Your strengths, passion and the type of career adventure you seek. Your Military background should be on the resume or summary, however, don't over do it.

And as always, Thank you for your services!

Advisor

Marc-Anthony Arena Rochester, NY

Hi Lt Cmdr,
I usually don't count on recruiters and "go to our website to apply" sort of stuff. Unfortunately that's an area where technology has made things a lot more impersonal, imho.
Instead, I rely on personal relationships. In my city, rather than join any clubs that are officially for business networking, I've found a lot better results in more relaxed clubs, where people are more down to earth, more themselves. It could be an ethnic club (I've been to luncheons at nearby Italian clubs) or a hobby club.
Of course the folks who've answered this post sound like they could be great connections to companies! It's all because they've gotten to know you in that little bit of personal contact.
Hope that helps, thanks for your service!
Marc

Advisor

Scott Johnson Virginia Beach, VA

Hi Casper,

That can certainly be frustrating. Depending on the size of the organization, the recruiter may get many connection requests daily. If they don’t even acknowledge you then I would question if that would be the organization you want to pursue.

Don’t be discouraged. There are many who will connect and provide direction on employment opportunities at their company. Networking is a key factor in getting into a company in management and above positions; at least that’s my opinion.

The right opportunity will present itself. Keep it up and good luck!

Advisor

Ilka Farley Anna, OH

Companies and recruiters in general get a lot of request, however if there are not positions to fill within your area of interest they tend to be non-responsive due to the amount of request they receive.
Have you been working with a mentor?
Have you had your resume reviewed for fit into the civilian workplace?

Veteran

Christopher Brown Middleburg, FL

Hello Steve,

I think that I may have lots of insight to offer. Are you interested in setting up a call?

Chris

Advisor

Dr. Les Wright West Bend, WI

I would suggest first seeking a mentor. One whom went from military to private/federal gov sector. Next you would need to revise your resume, one to fit private sector and one for federal government. In your discussions with your mentor, chat about your experiences, your goals, your resume, and what advice you seek from them.

Advisor

William (Liam) Hickey Chicago, IL

Big companies can be tough. If you want to earn an interview, be unconventional. Waiting in line like everyone else isn’t earning anything. You’ve got the right idea to try different methods. Getting noticed is step 1, and you have to *show what you can do* in order to get noticed.

I agree with those talking about networking. I will try to add some specific techniques.

- What does that company need that you offer? Mention your top credentials when introducing yourself *before* asking any questions. (“I am transitioning out of the Navy with a _____ clearance and Lean Six Sigma Black Belt certification. I’d like to ask about ….”)

- Find the company’s LinkedIn page and then click on the link to see all employees in the company. Look for job titles or departments. Go *into the profile* before clicking Connect. The Connect option *within the profile* allows you to add a brief message (without paying for LinkedIn’s mail service). Keep in mind that some people never log on to LinkedIn, so try several people.

- Do a more general People search on LinkedIn and check for former employees (past companies). Use the LinkedIn filters to help narrow down your searches.

- Keep expanding your LinkedIn connections. This adds to your value and your visibility, and 97% of recruiters check LinkedIn profiles. (Bullhorn Reach, 2014)

- Have you joined any LinkedIn groups or professional associations for Lean Six Sigma Black Belt? Search the group memberships. Post on the forum. (That demonstrates expertise and makes you more noticeable.)

- Check the company’s news/media page and regular media news coverage for interesting stories and press releases. Notice any names mentioned.

- Check if they have a Toastmasters club that is open to the public. Find the link on the club’s page to arrange to visit as a guest.

- They may be at an upcoming career fair, although the line may be long, but it’s an idea.

- Call administrative assistants. They can be helpful.

- Go to lunch or happy hour at the place across from their big office building near you. Strike up conversation. “So, are most people here from XYZ Corp. right over there?”

HTH,
Liam Hickey

Advisor

Gene Nokes Dublin, CA

Recruiters are notoriously bad communicators, unless you have managed to develop a relationship. There is lots of good advice already posted for you. Read this article to get an idea of how to network your way into your target organization: https://patch.com/california/dublin/networking-how-to-contact-people-you-dont-know-very-well

Veteran

Dean Bottomley

CDR, Its definitely not personnel, many companies get overwhelmed with Resumes and weeding through to find the right Candidates for their needs. Stay persistent , especially if you have received any type of acknowledgement from your applications.
By continually attempting to contact them you might unknowingly be placed on the DNU (Do Not Use) List.
As a Business owner, the last thing I want to deal with is a candidate who keeps hitting me up. This is one sure way to have your Resume end up in the circular file, Remember if your qualifications are solid, it may take time but they will reach out to you.
Best of luck in your endeavors. Capt Dean B.

Veteran

Marc Blanchenay Pompano Beach, FL

Casper,

Recruiters aren't going to be the successful path in, unless you've developed a rapport with them previously. Large corporation are notoriously challenging as the hiring and vetting functions are designed to filter out applicants.

My best recommendations are to look through resources such as Linkedin, find people who work in the area of that company you are interested in, see what professional associations they follow or are members with and develop contacts through that pathway. And when you do get a reference to someone in the organization, dont go right for 'help me get hired', instead ask for their insight regarding professional area you are interested in, company culture, etc.

Advisor

Louis Schwarz Somerville, NJ

Hi. My experience is in house HR have no urgency to find candidate. The recruiting firms get paid for placing candidates, the in house HR does not. You may do better with placement firms. Also, in house HR only can recruit when there is an approved opening. Without an approved opening, they may not talk to you, also there are so many requests for meetings with HR, they are very selective.
This is the process, so go with the flow and use the placement firms to make contacts.

Advisor

Jose Roman Norfolk, VA

Good Morning,

Information interviews, that can be done in-person or via Email or LinkedIn with people employees of any organization is vital to make the right connections. Are you following the organization on LinkedIn? Have you reached out to mutual connections that can make an introduction that can lead to a meaningful information interview? Are you being proactive in making connections on LinkedIn?

I see you're in VB. Let me know if this answers your question or if you need some further guidance on the networking piece. As the veteran employment coordinator at Regent University Im just down the street.

Cheers!
Jose R

Advisor

Elliot Young Brooklyn, NY

Hi Casper,

Thank you for your service.

I would get a professional photoshoot in your Navy Officer Formal viewed head to the bottom of your jacket. Take an 8X10 and put it in a non-bendable manilla envelope with the following below and send it to the Corporate Headquarters of ANY company you want to work for. Especially if you have the current board members names, vice president, etc. See if an attorney or doctor friend can let you use LEXIS NEXIS to get that most current information on the employees or board members. They will know what you are asking.

Letter
The letter should be a wet-ink signed letter stating why you sent your resume this way. Make sure the "Sincerely, your signature, and your name" is on the RIGHT side. NOT THE TRADITIONAL LEFT. Too much to explain here but one is a signature and the other is an autograph. If it's to a company that the recruiter dropped the ball. Then state their name and contact information. This way no soldier after you will ever be treated that way. At least not by that idiot again. Even be as bold as to state your salary range so you don't waste any more time. "In the interest of time, so we are on the same page and under these unusual circumstances, the salary range I'm looking for in my field is $125,000. An acknowledgment you received this communication in writing and an expeditious reply either way would be greatly appreciated ". They won't be able to resist soldiers being neglected by one of their employees. If they do you have your PS3877* for recourse.

Resume
Try looking into a modern resume. (Google "modern resume"). Something that will stand out. Put a list of your top 5 or 10 dream companies to work for and send them all out at once. Give them 10 business days for a reply. Acquiessnece only benefits your position.

Also, go to executive employment agencies that only send you to 100K jobs and up. They respect you more because the agent is motivated by a commission.

If your dream job doesn't reply immediately, that's ok. Get all your offers in writing this way when they do make an offer you already have written offers in hand to take with you. Tell them, after all, you been through you discussed it with your family and your wife or fiance. Only serious offers come in writing and that you agree with them. They will respect that and if they don't you tried but most people don't even try.

*PS3877
When challenged by mail in any situation, especially legal ones, with no response after 10 days acquiescence begins so use a PS3877 Form. (Go to the central post office in your area and ask for an entire book as many as possible. PS3877 Form here https://goo.gl/mvVmX9 ) This form is based on the power of the "Mail Box Rule". The "sent" date is the "arrival date" that is to say even though you "sent' the docs on say March 20th it also arrived "March 20th" guaranteed by the Postmaster General iron clad. Save a copy of the FORM to submit as an exhibit. It arrived, no questions. FYI if you want to do registered mail you can but not necessary but doing both is fine. ALWAYS use the form as standard procedure NEVER not use it. Just make sure ALL of the contents of what is sent are listed in the PS3877 Form, registered mail number, and make sure the document is stamped by the Postmaster General.

PS3817: Certificate of Mailing
It just provides evidence that mail was presented to the United States Postal Service. Less powerful than 3877 but useful. The go-to is 3877 I just thought you should be made aware of another.

FACT: Why do you think when Benjamin Franklin was asked to be President he said no almost before the person asking them was finished asking him. Then passionately asking to be the Postmaster General immediately. Same reason USPS trucks don't have license plates. That's on a need to know soldier. They say "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely". I say, I absolutely will not corrupt my own power by not using these documents.

This way when you do send them out with no reply. You send a registered mail copy of your PS3877, that's a federal document stating you did and they lied or was negligent. I think you will get a response then. Its a legal matter at this point. Use the tools that are in place for you to use.

When every soldier gets out of the service, they should leverage their housing benefits to purchase multi-family properties so you can live rent-free. Pay a management company to collect rent and make repairs. Get a 4 family under the rules or get into a partnership and form a company and use hard money lenders and get a 32 unit and retire your family forever. The first half to 75% should take care of everything and keep the rest as "cash flow" income which is tax-free. Get this it's free with $8 shipping https://tinyurl.com/smdykld and then watch the Monday at 12 noon live videos on Youtube or later when they are posted hours later. They are called Real Estate Investing Made Easy with Grant Cardone. This way you can live rent-free and start a business and have the revenue from your tax-free cash flow income to fuel it. Or use the real state as your business. David Rockefeller said "Own nothing control everything". He was talking about real estate, cash-flowing businesses. The only true way to live this life to enjoy it and have time for your family.

In any event, I hope for your success. Anything else I can assist with I'm here Casper. I wish for you and your family "everything honorable and glorious".

Thank you for the opportunity to help you, Lieutenant Commander.

Regards,

Elliot Young

Veteran

Kent Watson Monticello, FL

Good afternoon Lt Cdr Casper, Thank you so very much for your service in behalf of a grateful Nation! Networking is the key that does open most doors. Trade associations, professional associations, fraternities, and other kind of special interest groups can get you to the right path. Every opportunity that you have be prepared to give your elevator speech. Corporate recruiters are just gatekeepers or big horse holders to decision-makers. Again, networking, networking and networking to gain traction. Very Sincerely, Chief Kent T. Watson, CW4, USA, Retired (34 years and 8 months) now Southeast Region Fraud Prevention Inspector - Healthcare

Advisor

David Eastman Gresham, OR

Hello, Casper

First of all, thank you for your service. No doubt you are frustrated in your attempt to reach the very corporate recruiter working in the company you have targeted for your own employment. Seems strange that a "recruiter" whose singular job is to find outstanding and qualified employees for his/her company, is not responsive to some one fitting that profile.

My son recently was hired by Amazon Corporate in Seattle where he works in the Small Business Development Group. He actually did not approach the Amazon HR Department but found some "outside" recruiting firms with contracts to find people for Amazon. I would recommend that you try that approach; search for outside recruiting firms, headhunters and/or contract HR companies and apply and talk to them directly. They can open doors for you directly to the hiring managers in the corporations you have an interest in and circumvent the in-house HR people.

Sorry you are having difficulties. I wish you much success in your job search and your future career.

Regards,

David F Eastman, CEO, US Navy Veteran, P-3 Anti-Submarine Avionics

Advisor

Paul Tusting Salt Lake City, UT

This dovetails with what others have said, but find a way to get a foot hold in the company and work back to the recruiters. My wife was a travel contract nurse for years, and would be able to work with the unit managers, and take what they discussed to the recruiter. It can step on some toes (the right tone and approach is key), but in the end 1) you will be working for the company not the recruiter, and 2) the recruiter doesn't seem to be advocating for you [I wouldn't suggest this approach had they been responding].

Similarly, but a little less aggressive than example above (going directly to hiring managers), you can try to network with your future peers (vs. hiring manger). This can be as simple as reaching out on LI or FB, and asking what they like about working there.

Good Luck!

Advisor

Scott Papenfus Enon, OH

A lot of great advice. If you have targeted that specific company, and getting past HR is a problem, then it leaves networking. Everyone covered it pretty well, but I will add one idea that I've seen work. Make as many connections as possible at that company on LinkedIn. Try to find the hiring manager or others in that department. Review their LinkedIn profile to see what local events they attend or groups they belong to. Engage in those groups or attend the local meetings and make the face to face connection.

I know one person that had a specific target, found the department managers name, found that they are active in a local chapter of a marketing group and then went to those meetings. It led to a meeting (and friendship) that ended in a job at that company. Not the easiest route, but most others aren't willing to put that much effort in - so if you do, it can pay off.

Advisor

Jerry Welsh Middleville, MI

First I agree with Steve, your profiles does not list what career you wish to search for. A company does not try to slot you into a position they think you may fit, you tell them what career field you are looking at and then they see where you might fit. You have a Black Belt, that should be in your TAG line, are you interested in Process Improvement or Operational Efficiencies.
Have you looked a people in this company on LinkedIn, reached out to network with them? Steve indicated professional meetings are great places to meet people also. The recruiter can not tell what you want to do, their role is not to search your vast experience and find a position to fit you in. Senior military see their vast experience as a positive, recruiters slot people. In order for you to make some head way, what slot are you willing to look at? Then start getting to know folks via professional meetings or professional interchanges on LinkedIn. Thanks for your service. God Bless Here are some items you might find helpful.
Good examples of “to the point” profiles are Mark Broc, PMP, SSGB, SrumMaster, Domonick Steward, Information Technology Specialist | ISSO | Security+ and Jack Eisenhauer, Global Supply Chain. All have had long careers, but emphasized experiences and accomplishments that offer examples of the career they are searching for.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/transitioning-veterans-how-where-do-i-find-my-value-military-welsh/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/linkedin-profile-transitioning-service-members-portal-jerry-welsh/

Advisor

Bob Molluro Wilmington, DE

Unfortunately you have not found the right person to get you in the door. Here is where perseverance will pay off. Since you have zeroed in on the company try to find as many opportunities to network with their employees. Tell everyone who will listen your story as it only takes one. Let me give you an example. My son in law Mike was the top US sales person for a French company. They decided to disband their US operations. Mike who was well compensated had a difficult time finding comparable opportunities. He followed my advice and told everyone his story. One day he met a man at a lunch counter. After their conversation this man said , "I know a Billionaire who could use a guy with your skills and experiences." The long story short is Mike got hired, proved himself again and is now a partner with well over $500,000 in annual compensation. It took Mike over six months to make the initial connection and I am sure he would tell you to don't give up.

Advisor

Henry ("Dr. Hank") Stevens Fort Lauderdale, FL

As a recruiter and H-R Director for many years, I DO understand!

As there is a POSSIBILITY that something is wrong in your resume, the suggestion to have an ACP pro review it (ADOLT's suggestion) is a great idea! I endorse that!

So . . . . I will not dwell on that idea; however . . . consider a different tactic, versus a frontal attack. That is, do some target acquisition by identifying someone just senior to the position you are after and seek an "informational interview" with him/her. If it goes well, s/he will ask you for a resume and with that friend behind the lines, s/he will become your in-house advocate.

Advisor

Chad Eaves Lake Zurich, IL

Hello Casper,

As with any situation, it's a good idea to get in touch with the decision-maker(s). Most of the time recruiters are gatekeepers. On your LinkedIn profile I see where you attended a PMP event. Getting involved in one or more professional associations (such as PMI) will help meet people and bypass recruiters.

You may also want to look into Association of Change Management Professionals (ACMP). Ultimately, being in a position where someone asks for your resume is a far stronger position versus submitting them online and competing against an algorithm and keywords.

It's more work to get out and meet people, for sure - but you get to shine with potential decision-makers or influencers instead of hoping a recruiter likes your profile.

Regards,
Chad

Veteran

Steve Adolt Lancaster, PA

Casper,

This sounds incredibly frustrating and I've seen it happen a number of times with folks before I was asked to coach and mentor them.

In looking at your LinkedIn profile, I believe I can show you some quick changes you can make and a few different approaches you can take to improve your hit rate.

If you'd like to have this discussion, send me a copy of your current resume and I'll send you a link to my calendar so you can schedule a time that's good for you.

Hope to hear from you soon.

--Steve

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