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How to get a civilian job?

Veteran

Ronald Bailey Lake City, FL

Hello everyone, my name is Ronald Bailey, I am a SFC/ E-7 in the Army with 17 years time in service. I would like to retire from the Army in 3 years and really unsure of what field to go into or how anyone makes that decision. I completed my BA 5 years ago and am currently halfway through an MBA with a global marketing emphasis (I should finish next summer). I would love to work in business and hopefully one day run my own; but as business is such a broad area, I really don't know where to begin, or even how to go about getting a civilian job. What certifications or skills should I develop prior to retiring and how far out should I start the "job hunt"?

8 September 2017 23 replies Military to Civilian Transition

Answers

Advisor

Paul Trejo Austin, TX

Hi Ronald,

First -- thanks for your years of service.

Secondly -- good move on getting a 3-year start on your job search. Smart.

Third -- here's my advice:

1. Define for yourself exactly what you want to do with your career -- as far as possible. Since you have 17 years work experience, you know what a work environment is like, so you already have a fair idea.

2. The big difference is moving from the US Military into the private sector, where you may have no experience at all.

3. The main difference, which is subtle, is the enforced informality. That is, you will never call your boss "Sir" or "Ma'am". Ever. It's bad form. Yet you will always defer to them as your senior officer, anyway. That's really important.

3.1. Some bosses want to be called by their first name. Others want to be called by a title and their last name. FIND OUT, and DO THAT, case by case. But never "Sir" or "Ma'am." It's a different culture.

3.2. Loyalty is just as valued in the private sector as in the US Military, though more rare. Your civilian bosses will hope that you bring your quality of Loyalty to their door. If you do, you will go far, generally. Call your boss by an informal name, but give him or her all the loyalty that you would give any CO. This is powerful stuff.

4. Don't apply for a job. MOVE INTO A CAREER. In other words, don't start applying for all the jobs you might qualify for, and hope for a call.

5. Here's what I mean. Start looking at COMPANIES that you want to work for. ELIMINATE the one's you don't like.

6. Also, start looking for the CITIES you would be OK working in. ELMIINATE the ones you don't like.

7. Get your list down to a manageable TOP TEN. This is hard, but take the time. You've given yourself just about enough time -- not much more.

8. Next, get your list down to the TOP THREE. There is a reason for this.

9. Take your TOP THREE companies, and start to learn ALL ABOUT THEM. Learn about the Founders, the current CEO, their Market Share, their Company Culture, their Organizational Model, their Patents, their Technology, their Future Goals.

10. Next, learn about their Top Board Members. You do this by buying one share of their company stock. That makes you a Stockholder, and they will send you a Board Packet. Learn about their politics and controversies.

11. Do this for your TOP THREE picks. It's good to know about the other companies, even if you love one more than the others, so that you will have INDUSTRY gossip to talk about during your interviews.

12. For your interviews: (a) never complain about anything or anyone; (b) never confess about anything or anyone; (c) never answer any question with a simple Yes/No; (d) always have a cache of "personal anecdotes" about your success stories, whittled down to 2 or 3 sentences each. When you are asked any interview question, answer with a PERSONAL ANECDOTE.

Well, Ronald, that should do it. If you follow this advice, and YOU TARGET the company and the job you want -- YOU WILL GET IT. You gave yourself lots of time, so if you use that time in the way I just outlined, I believe you are guaranteed success.

Best wishes,
--Paul Trejo

13 November 2017 Helpful answer

Advisor

NEIL MIDDLETON Ellicott City, MD

Ronald,

Since you want to own your own business one day, I suggest going to work with a Franchisor or a business that is a franchise. There are thousands of choices out here. I used a business coach. They cost you nothing. The coach knew how to help me select the business/franchise that was the best fit for me.
When you get within 6 months of joining the civilian workforce, reach back out to me and I'll see what additional information I can get for you.
Neil

Advisor

Andrea Hannah Nashville, TN

You should consider to refocus your certification efforts on IT and Software Engineering, which complement MBA majors who lack a bachelor's in a professional non-liberal arts pathway(i.e. Nursing, Engineering, etc.). IT skills are needed in every industry and typically pay at a level of comfort desired in a mid-large sized city.

Advisor

Carl Legge West Chester, PA

Once you decide generally what industry you think is interesting and you would enjoy, next pick the ideal companies you think are in that sector. Then my advice would be to be open about what function you want to work in, so be open about applying for specific roles. It's still a long career, you can change functions along the way. Once you are in the company, you are in the family and your reputation will follow you internally and even externally. i.e., consider sales, marketing assistant, copy approval, etc. if your interest is really getting into marketing. Consider supply chain, operations, or engineering if you want to get into project managment. Being open to moving initially is preferred to get into a good company. It doesn't mean you are going to move around like it was when you were in the military, for you will have more options and negotiating power as you get more years under your belt.

Advisor

Jim Rohrbach Evanston, IL

Hi Ron! Start doing some vocational testing (can be free or inexpensive on-line) to determine your aptitudes and interests. Next step would be informational interviewing of people who are in businesses or professions you're interested in. Forward your resume to me and we can chat by phone: Coach@SuccesssSkills.com -- Jim "Da Coach"

Advisor

Richard Beavers Nashua, NH

Hi Ronald,

Thank you for your service!

I’m a senior manager of a business operations team at a “small site” (~260 people), at Lockheed Martin (LM). We are responsible for all things “financial”, with a mix of internal and external customers.

I think your military experience will be a huge advantage dealing with military customers. I have never served, so things like ranks are all foreign to me, but it will be natural for you. Leverage that if you go into marketing or program management, or any field where you will have direct military customer contact.

One of the things I like most about LM, as a company, is our culture of high ethical standards. It is enforced at every level. It is genuine.

LM uses what they call “Full Spectrum Leader” panel interviews, for higher-level positions. They are very experienced-based, such as “Tell me about a time you had a conflict with some at work? What was the situation? What did you do? How did it turn out?” You can pepare for them by organizing your experiences into topics that illustrate the qualities you will bring to the position, using a variety of recent, real-life examples.

LM is successfully growing their international business base, so opportunities for international marketing are good. The whole company and industry are facing a talent drain, as a very large group approaches retirement, which is creating lots of opportunities.

The larger sites offer more opportunities for those roles, but the smaller sites allow you to learn a lot in a short amount of time. They are typically the production sites; very fast-paced; but closer-knit culture than the larger sites.

Know yourself and figure out what skills you have that will translate, and what you need to develop or learn.

I wish you well as you prepare for your transition!

Rick Beavers

Advisor

Richard Beavers Nashua, NH

Hi Ronald,

Thank you for your service!

I’m a senior manager of a business operations team at a “small site” (~260 people), at Lockheed Martin (LM). We are responsible for all things “financial”, with a mix of internal and external customers.

I think your military experience will be a huge advantage dealing with military customers. I have never served, so things like ranks are all foreign to me, but it will be natural for you. Leverage that if you go into marketing or program management, or any field where you will have direct military customer contact.

One of the things I like most about LM, as a company, is our culture of high ethical standards. It is enforced at every level. It is genuine.

LM uses what they call “Full Spectrum Leader” panel interviews, for higher-level positions. They are very experienced-based, such as “Tell me about a time you had a conflict with some at work? What was the situation? What did you do? How did it turn out?” You can pepare for them by organizing your experiences into topics that illustrate the qualities you will bring to the position, using a variety of recent, real-life examples.

LM is successfully growing their international business base, so opportunities for international marketing are good. The whole company and industry are facing a talent drain, as a very large group approaches retirement, which is creating lots of opportunities.

The larger sites offer more opportunities for those roles, but the smaller sites allow you to learn a lot in a short amount of time. They are typically the production sites; very fast-paced; but closer-knit culture than the larger sites.

Know yourself and figure out what skills you have that will translate, and what you need to develop or learn.

I wish you well as you prepare for your transition!

Rick Beavers

Advisor

Michael Millman New Orleans, LA

Good morning Ron:
Many thanks for your important service. I have read many of the answers to your question and am impressed with the depth and detail in them.

In researching potential employers that are publicly traded companies, you can go to a website called EDGAR. This is at www.sec.gov and is a data base of all publicly traded companies. On this site, go to the annual proxy statements and go to the compensation pages. This will provide a listing of the 5 highest compensated executives as well as a listing of all the board members and their resumes.
Try to see if you can find a connection to any of the executives or board members. Are they vets? Do you share a branch of service or MOS? Perhaps you know one of them or know someone who does. If you are able to find a connection, write a letter or send an email outlining your goals and experience, especially your desire to make a difference in their company.
Good luck in your search!

Advisor

Victor Ramos Mc Lean, VA

We are looking - Interested

TO APPLY FOR POSITIONS AT RAYTHEON, FOLLOW THESE STEPS:

1. Visit www.raytheon.com/military
2. Click “Drop off your resume here” to add yourself to the transitioning military database for review by our recruiters.
3. To search for jobs of interest and submit to specific jobs, select “search our openings and apply.”
4. Create a login and more detailed profile if it is your first visit to the site. Complete the voluntary self-identification form

Tip from recruiters: Only provide information that is relevant to the position you are applying for. Once you locate the desired job or position, review the job description, required or desired skills, required or desired education, and security clearance requirements. Read all items carefully and note key skills, systems, programs, etc. Tailor your resume to address these specific items using the verbiage in the job posting. There are military translators that may be of help, for example http://www.military.com/veteran-jobs/skills-translator/.

Veteran

Michael Bell Houston, TX

These days you can find an "MOS translator" online, and Networking I'm told helps, but I too am still looking.

Advisor

William Ryan New York, NY

Thank you for your service. What type of business would you like to own or start?

Advisor

Ernest Charles III Cypress, TX

here is my digital business card , call me so that I can give you ideas that might help you. Thanks for your service to our country!! https://www.jointrunited.info

Advisor

Melinda Long West Des Moines, IA

Good Morning, at Wells Fargo we have made it our goal to have 20K veterans hired within Wells Fargo by year 2020. I have hired multiple veterans for Operational Risk Consultant positions within Wells Fargo all over the US. Another option that is good for military professionals within Wells Fargo called our Business Initiatives Consultant. If you would like to review these job opportunities and see if they would be of interest to you, I would be happy to help consider you when ready. I would also want to get in you in touch with some of my colleagues that are actually military veterans themselves and are a specialized recruiting group that specifically send out position updates and help military veterans with resumes career advice etc. for landing positions within Wells Fargo. I believe we have military internships as well I am not sure what they pay and if you have been in the military for the years stated then we would most likely be targeting a position as an Operational Risk Cons 3 or 4 to try to keep your pay at what you are making today or even in some cases above. We can discuss all of this when you are ready! :)

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your service to our country, it is very appreciated!

Sincerely,
Risk & Compliance Recruiter for Wells Fargo
Melinda.long@wellsfargo.com

Veteran

Paul Haddick Colorado Springs, CO

Sent you a DM brother. I deemed my advice and input a bit too honest for public consumption. A lot of what is said in public about veteran hiring can be misleading for the actual veterans in question. That's because there are often multiple conflicting interests at play in anything American companies say with regard to veterans, but it's presented as a straightforward desire to help us make our way. From what I've experienced it's not that simple. Details in the DM.

Even veterans themselves filter things because often they face a covertly hostile job market which is on the surface inviting. Yes men that brand themselves helping companies feel better about their efforts in veteran hiring tend to do better especially if they want an HR role.

Critics do not.

Which then means you are looking at an anti-democratic, heavily censored conceptual and narrative space, and any information you derive from it is suspect. If you look on LinkedIN there are a few of those. And they do well being yes men - I have two very active and influential LinkedIN blue falcons personally in mind right now and can give you their names and my impressions of them via DM. Or you can just follow their screed on the platform - pay attention to when veterans critical of the sloppy processes they are facing chime in and these guys respond - how they respond.

Talk to people who have struggled and succeeded with difficulty and you will gain insights. I have most certainly struggled. But I feel my recent hire means I'm increasingly credible. I've started to figure this out.

It's harder for us than some others in the market. I feel we are in a position similar to the several millions who never resurfaced after the housing market crash and subsequent carnage - the people now missing from the LFPR (Labor Force Participation Rate).

Advisor

Kathryn Haynes Grass Valley, CA

Hi Ronald,

Depending on the kind of jobs you apply to and the size of the organizations you decide to target, you should start your job search about a year from when you want to begin work. In some companies the hiring process can take a long time and you won't get an offer each time. Start to build new relationships now and don't just wait until you have a need to connect with those already in your network.

I'm coming into this discussion a little late but have read all the comments... there is a lot of great advice here. I would add that if you stick to Marketing, think about what you're trying to sell and who you're trying to influence in that function. You could go to work for a consulting firm, but what is the subject matter, who are the clients, what impacts do the products or services have on our society? For example, I could never work for any of the Big Pharma companies. They do a lot of good, and they also rely heavily on lobbying Congress to create laws to sell drugs that lead to huge national problems (opiod addiction just for starters). Same goes for chemical companies like Monsanto or food giants like Nestle whose products are literally poison. It is important to consider how you personally feel about these things if you're going to spend the next 20 years selling them to consumers. The most important things will not always be about how creative and strategic you are as a Marketer although that's very important. Bottom line.... be true to you. You'll want to feel good about what you're trying to accomplish with a big picture in mind.

In terms of the nuts and bolts around job hunting, you want to start with a great resume and remember that one size does not fit all. You're going to need about three different versions that can easily be customized. I've been a recruiter for over 23 years and have seen many great resumes. There are a lot of resources out there that can help with the step by step process of job searching, interview techniques (all the do's and don'ts), how to follow up after an interview, how to negotiate salary, etc. and I'd be happy to help further if you wanted to connect outside of this chat. kathryn.haynes@aon.com

Advisor

Rick Russell Fort Worth, TX

As several people have said, there are resources that use analytics based on your answers to give you direction on a career. If you really don't know know what kind of "business" you want to get into, this is a very good start. Early in my career, the university had an actual class for engineering students where we covered a different field of engineering every week. That and the career test that I took nailed it and I was in Computer Science for over 30 years and loved every minute. Google some of the "what job/career would be best for me". Obviously, the tests that have more questions get more insight to you as a person. Good Luck!

Advisor

Brady Moore Pompton Lakes, NJ

SFC Bailey - I got out 6 years ago and got an MBA immediately. I've been employed at IBM ever since. Good work identifying your path so far in advance - you are exceeding your peers.

One thing I'd recommend from the start is to reach out to companies you think you might want to work for, or even just ones you're curious about, and ask them for an informational interview. Lots of companies are motivated to help veterans and really all you'd be asking them is for a little bit of their time and attention.

You don't know what you don't know, and I suspect you'd appreciate a real-world example of what business is like.

Veteran

Grant Lewis Virginia Beach, VA

I started about ten months before retirement and started interviewing at about the six month point. I encourage you to be willing to go anywhere for your first job. Worry about living in that perfect place after you have a few years experience in the civilian world.

Advisor

Henry ("Dr. Hank") Stevens Fort Lauderdale, FL

Just what is it that you like to do and are good at? That is the lead you will follow. Not an easy task but worth pursuing. Here is a (free) link to a well-tried and true test that will help you answer that question. If you wind up with any questions about understanding the vocational answers, feel free to contact me off channel (as I am not on this one much) at hlstevens@att.net.

http://www.humanmetrics.com/personality

Hank

Advisor

Mike Cottell Glen Head, NY

Hi Ronald, the attached link will connect you to a website that you might find useful to explore many options. Special section for veterans. Good Luck to you and thank you for your service. Best Regards, Mike

https://www.mynextmove.org/

Advisor

Elizabeth Peak Charlottesville, VA

Both answers above are useful, I would think about How you have done your military jobs; your style , your focus with problem solving. Use specific examples, real life experiences. One phrase my Marine uses as he develops the use of drones in reconnaissance : It is better to ask permission or forgiveness ? He's using New to him tech. But finds creative ways to deploy them. That's what will be asked of you to translate your skills and style of creative problem solving to civilian situations.

Advisor

Neil Serafin Easthampton, MA

Consumer goods....dependent on the economy and consumer's changing tastes....over time the best biz is War.... with your experience.....you know the buzzwords, can walk the walk and talk the talk...NATO partners and many of our "allies"...buy our war products because we are generations ahead of the other OEM's in Russia, China and Iran. Go for marketing, supply chain, sales with the big guys....stock call letters RTN, OA etc. Apply to their employment sites....go to their DOD vendor shows...go to the booths and speak to the guys and gals you could be working with.

Advisor

Liz Campanelli East Brunswick, NJ

Hi Ronald,
Good Morning and thank you for all you do!
For starters, consider what you do now in the service that you do like.
You have a bit of time, so make a list. What interests me, what doesn't.
You're working on global marketing for MBA, so I'm assuming Marketing is a goal.

Consider reaching out to anyone here on ACP within the Marketing field.
If Supply Chain and Logistics fit into your thoughts, reach out to any of the big companies such as Amazon, pharmaceuticals, etc. Supply Chain is all over whether it be medical devices, a consumer product or M&M's!

Think about some things that interest you and just make a list, then you can narrow it down and start exploring opportunities. Then reach out for help getting a resume together that will be tailored to the civilian world. We are all here to help you with that and ability to translate from military to civilian format.

Hope this helps and wishing you good luck and safety!

Liz Campanelli

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