Dov Kawamoto ⋅ Woodbridge, VA U.S. Marine Corps, Major ⋅ 15 years served

Joel, I retired as a redleg about two years ago, with all the soft skills; four combat tours, MPA, PMP, yada yada... The following is not meant to be harsh just, my experience: For those who are institutionalised and need/want to part of an organization/company there are two ways: know someone who will bring you in or have experience/qualifications for that job. The dirtbag who spent three years as a recruiter can work as a recruiter/hr type. The adaptable, smart, leader will not. The second option is to continue to work in the "defense industrial complex." some like this option however, most including all those who want to be cops, do not. The third is to start over in some type of entry level position. Most will work their way up very quickly. If you get an MBA there are management options like this. However, this is not easy; people will not think "what a great opportunity to bring in & shape talent." It's either they genuinly believe you should be doing something more senior, or they don't want to deal with someone who wants to be more senior working for them.
Of course I too learned: don't complain, provide solutions. I also started a small weekend hobby business. My regret was not doing it sooner; probably even to the point that I shouldn't have gotten my masters. For those who have the ablity, and I realize this isn't for everyone however, I strongly recommend for folks like us, starting some type of business. Even for those who are pretty belt fed they could just go with a franchise.
It pains me to say this as when I was on active duty, I hated all of those who spent their time shaping their next career/business (except one as his extracarricular work was writing about military stuff & became a writer, plus he's one of the finest officers I've served with) however, from this side of the fence they were the smart ones. YMMV.

Keith Fulton ⋅ South Orange, NJ ⋅ 24 years experience

From reading this board for a few months, it is interesting to see how folks coming out of the military are so used to having a "program" to help them, or used to having a "recipe" for what qualifications or certifications or degrees will be the master key that unlocks the private sector for them.

The reality is that there is no formula in the private sector. And really there is no single way of viewing "the private sector" as a unified thing. Degrees help; LinkedIn profiles help; wearing the right tie to the interview helps; knowing someone in the company helps, but there is no one true way to do this. On the other hand, there are millions of opportunities, millions of job openings waiting for someone to fill them at all levels of most industries. Most employers would tell you it is a struggle for them to find responsible, reliable people who can pass a drug test, let alone with relevant knowledge and leadership abilities.

I realize that the lack of cookie cutter formula must be daunting once you are used to having a formula, but it's the reality. There are no rails for the train, and there is no train. You're on a Sea Doo now, and you can jet around wherever you want on the water. Once you get that, you'll probably enjoy it a lot. :-)

Thomas Lyons ⋅ Houston, TX Hewlett Packard ⋅ 25 years experience

I think a common mistake is to under value the skills and experience picked up in the military by assuming that is it not beneficial in the private sector. The key is to identify the skills and translate them in a way that makes sense to civilians. For example, the technical details of the maintenance of a weapons system may not be directly transferable but the soft (and most valuable skills) associated with military experience are very transferable. Here are some examples of things to think about: Leadership, working under pressure, attention to details, working with difficult people, managing stressful situations, improvising, thinking on your feet, international experience etc. Instead of putting Staff Sergeant for a platoon of artilleryman think about listing leadership experience leading a team of 15 that operates in a multinational environment that focused on hitting deadlines and meeting budgets.

Lucian Hill ⋅ Pearland, TX AECOM ⋅ 6 years experience

I would highly encourage education to be completed before making the transition to the other side.

Other suggestions may be working with local head hunters in the cities or regions they might be working in as they may be able to match skillsets better than the individual.

Also looking into civilian counterparts with DOD or contracting could be of interest. Look in to the prior military friendly companies that provide the same services (i.e. artillery manufacturing, business) for good leads. When in doubt, pick up the phone and talk to some company reps for good leads.

Phil C. ⋅ Fort Worth, TX ⋅ 3 years experience

Joel,

These senior enlisted Soldiers probably have the skills to do well at a number of things. However, HR folks have absolutely ZERO capacity to transfer military skills into civilian skills. Any CSM/1SG/MSG in any basic branch has the HR and logistics skills to be at the upper management or executive level, but nobody realizes that. Yes, they have proved themselves and have done their time. Yet, they will start out at close to the bottom. How close, depends on their additional civilian credentials once they get out. From my experience, many civilians think that if you were that disciplined and motivated in the Army, you should have gotten a college degree. They have no insight into how crazy the OPTEMPO has been for the last 15 years and how hard it is to be on active duty and take classes. I couldn't pull it off even as a single guy. Reality is, nobody cares. So these senior enlisted troops need to know that they will have to continue to prove themselves, but it should be easier for them than for a college new-grad. Based on my experience, here's how they can prove themselves and make a smoother transition:

- Go to college and get a 4 year degree in something marketable.
* This rules out most degrees starting with a P unless it's Physics
* Psychology, philosophy, philanthropy, political science, are all topics worthy of getting educated on, but not worth the time and money for a degree that will never pay off.
- Get a technical trade like aviation mechanic, electrician, HVAC technican, etc etc
* VA benefits will pay for a lot of technical training
- Take certification courses in project management (there are bunch)
- Get out of as much debt as possible before retiring
- Setup a Linkedin account and make it mirror the resume with additional details
- DO NOT depend on ACAP folks to produce a noteworthy resume
* Make resume 1 page ONLY
* Use only PDF files - MS Word will underline all Army jargon in red and be turn off to HR
* Do not mention deployments to Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc

Now if some of these guys think they're too good for college, trade school or any kind of civilian education or certification then I guess the stereotypical Wal-Mart greeter gig will be just fine then. Joel, you are on the right path. Lead from the front!

-Phil

Joel Carbajal ⋅ El Paso, TX U.S. Army, Sergeant First Class ⋅ 18 years served

Thank you all for your advise, all comments were useful. I briefed my peers and superiors, it went well and some questions were asked about transferable skills, age as an obstacle to continue in a second career, others were more interested in VA benefits that continuing with a second career. I'm currently stationed in Korea so the outside resources are very limited but I did have a slide of this website so everyone could enter and get advice.

My sitrep. I'm currently enrolled in college and near the end of my BACHELOR PROFESSIONL STUDIES - BUSINESS & MANAGEMENT and Will get my MBA before I retire in a few years. My only obstacle may be my age since I will be 48 upon retirement. I also have other specialized training I have attended in the military that it's very valuable in the civilian sector. Any further comments are welcome or a look at my Linkedin profile are welcome.

Thank you
V/R
Joel Carbajal

Thank you.

stephen schumacher ⋅ Northfield, NJ UPS ⋅ 40 years experience

1st, I would believe you have to understand with only 16 years and still going, you are not in a position to give a briefing to senior member ready to retire. I would say you could moderate the briefing but certainly not give it.
I would suggest that you sit and outline exactly what you will be presently, take on the ones you may know about such as links, contacts, references that they will need to know. Things that come to mind, like insurance, banking, places to life, social security, stuff like that; the rest find experts in the fields you want to present. As far as the transition itself, I would find members who have already retired and invite them in [or I suppose with modern tech, they could Skype in]. Look for positives and negatives. I myself while I left the military and now have 41 years, in civilian job, I would not even bother to show up for a presentation such as you describe. I want to hear from people who have gone and tried, ask them what do I need to avoid same mistakes they made.
heck, based on your last sentence, you already gave up on them, "Not sure how many have or are working on civilian education, artillery its not a transferable skill to the civilian sector. "

Every skill is transferable, and these guys, while I do not know them, I would think their leadership skills , their ability to make decisions is more valuable than any one of their counterparts on the outside.

Re-do your presentation asap. don't be afraid to ask for outside help, references . Bring in people, no one is above asking, in fact , it's a sign of leadership , knowing when to ask.

Good quote to remember, when Henry Ford was asked how he could lead a company that built cars when he wasn't an expert himself. He answered , I do not need to be an expert in building cars, I need to hire people who are experts in buildings cars.

Paul Turlington ⋅ Ellicott City, MD UPS ⋅ 17 years experience

Expect your transition to take a longer time than you may expect. Use your VA benefits to obtained completed college program or seek employment with a company like UPS that have approved programs to use VA benefits.

Brian McDuffie ⋅ Bellaire, MI Meadowbrook MCF ⋅ 10 years experience

The old adage "Be All You Can Be" can really work if you let it. There are a plethora of things you can do as a veteran artillery man. You have a knowledge of mechanical operations that few ever receive. You use math (trigonometry and some calculus) in order to make your target. The paperwork alone in the military makes any member of the armed forces a clerical genius. You have to be tough to be an artillerymen. It takes guts and fortitude just to perform your duties. Always have a clear goal in sight and think about what you have done both within and without the military and the path to vocational fulfillment will be yours!

Landy Fitzsimmons ⋅ Ocean Springs, MS U.S. Army, Sergeant ⋅ 12 years served

In reality you are starting over. Very little you have done in the military carries over to a civilian job. If you start talking about your military duties etc and employer will look at you funny. As long as you are willing to accept you are starting from square one you will be fine.

Nathan Haffke ⋅ Omaha, NE Signal 88 Security ⋅ 20 years experience

Depending on the level of personal and financial goals a person may have might make going to work for someone in a "job" or even a "career" a poor decision. Although it might satisfy the income requirement, it does not provide the equity and wealth-building that owning a business can accomplish. If a supplemental income is all you need then a job should suffice. But loftier goals are much harder to hit and require a different vehicle, like a small business, to get you there. Franchises are a great option to consider because you don't have to be an expert in all areas of business... you simply have to be teachable and trainable to follow a system (something vets have proven they can already do!). I have some good, general material for your presentation if you have an interest. nhaffke@signal88.com

David Akre ⋅ New York, NY A NYSE listed financial company ⋅ 25 years experience

To transition realise that the most important difference is that private sector businesses make much faster decisions and management is keenly focused on the bottom line. Great employees add value daily. Work like you own the place.

Susan Whitmire ⋅ Marietta, GA Allstate Insurance Company ⋅ 20 years experience

I agree with Yucel Yilmaz. In addition, what about the gun range, teaching private gun safety courses? Police or fire depts.? Security companies? I know, in the South, gun safety, gun owership and permitting are topics that the public are always trying to find information on and seek education. Your guy's are top notch, in those fields.

Neil Serafin ⋅ Easthampton, MA Telecommunications ⋅ 40 years experience

Yes, projectile knowledge does not transfer to private industry. Two questions: Do they want the "use your back track"? Do they want the white collar director/executive path? First track could be great if they gain skills through a union apprenticeship program. Second track for finance, business and engineering. Degrees obtained by a non profit accredited college. If they were responsible for a 155 mm they led up to 9 guys. Good management experience...And they managed not to hit the FO.

Joel Carbajal ⋅ El Paso, TX U.S. Army, Sergeant First Class ⋅ 18 years served

Thank you. This is something I will add to my brief. I'm finishing my bachelors in business management my goal is to have my MBA before retirement in for years.

YUCEL YILMAZ ⋅ Butler, NJ B GLOBAL INC ⋅ 10 years experience

You have many transferable skill
*Leadership
*Team Management
*Risk Management
You need to know what occupation is your goal or what will make you happy or what you love to do ?
Do you have any degree or diploma or military education in any field.Do you have resume.
You can apply for professional certifications programs..For instance PMP, CEH,SIX SIGMA.

You have many opportunities.