Seth Lynch ⋅ Plano, TX Hewlett Packard ⋅ 15 years experience

Nathan,
it is great you are already building a plan for your transition. Three years goes by quickly.

If you stay focused on intelligence work, spend a lot of time over the next 3 years networking with current civilian contractors working with you or at your post. Most will be focused on strategic work, so if you are in tactical jobs (like S-2) where contractors don't really work, find some colleagues in the area that can introduce you. Networking will land you a job faster than submitting resumes on a job site.

An MBA is only going to be helpful if you want to get into a corporate management role. If you want to work as a specialist in a field, spend education time and money on honing those skills. If you go back to school, go to a school with a good reputation in that field. Unless you want to move into accounting, finance, or marketing your 20 years of experience will speak louder than a new MBA credential.

DO you want to manage people or be an individual contributor? The Army and civilian world are different in this aspect. You can have a very successful civilian career and never manage other people. If you do want to manage people as a major part of your work though, build your job search and resume around personnel leadership skills and not technical skills.

Where do you want to live and do you want to travel/ relocate often? If there is a place you want to live, look at companies with a major presence where you want to live. If you want to travel often or relocate every little bit, focus on jobs that are customer contract based, sales, or business development. If you want to stay put, Look at company headquarters location jobs.

Do you want to be a project manager? If yes, a PMP will give you a little advantage. If no, don't waste the time studying for the exam. A PMP just shows you can talk the language or project management and understand theory. It will not give you an advantage in an industry where you have no other specific experience.

JMO recruiters can help but can also steer you wrong. If you choose to work with them, ask a lot of questions about the companies and jobs they recruit for. Most will have a set of professional and entry management positions available in different industries if you want to get out of the intelligence world. Remember though that they are paid to place you with a company so do your due diligence on any company and see if you fit before you accept any offers.

Military/government contractors know as a retiree what you are getting from the military and will try to use that knowledge sometime to lowball you in salary or benefits. Don't let them talk you into a low offer based on your military benefits.

Good luck on your transition.

John Ozmun ⋅ Irving, TX Energy Future Holdings (Retired) ⋅ 10 years experience

Nathan, companies hire as much on core competencies as they do on job experience. The competencies show what you are really good at, while the job is simply where you applied them. If you will use the ACP program (others have mentioned it), you may be able to find a mentor that can help you translate your experience into core competencies (such as judgement, leadership, accountability, communication, ethics, etc.) on your resume. In addition, there is an advantage to getting the PMP even if you do not become a project manager. The skills you learn in that course will apply whether you are in accounting, finance, marketing, or operations. I know many people who are not titles as project managers who have the PMP, and they are very effective in their roles in getting initiatives and projects completed.

Damon Jensen ⋅ Yuba City, CA ⋅ 23 years experience

Nathan, as always, I can only share my experience and opinions.
I have recently attended two job fairs, one in Co. Springs and one by D.C., both are heavy Intel communities. The amount of folks looking to transition from military to civilian from the intel field is staggering, but understandable. I will also note that the amount of people transitioning from the military that look at PMP as a possible new career is also staggering.

However, what you have in a security clearance. This is a huge cost and time saving for potential employers. On the onset, you might not see how your skills translate, so you have to research potential careers. Something like a classified courier could be a good transitional job. You need to keep that clearance active once it goes inactive or expires, it doesn't matter what you had in the past you are starting all over again.

I thought that PMP was a good career for me when I transitions, until I got some PMP certification. It looks like many of our leadership skills carry over, but the reality is, that the breath of PMP experience most of us never dealt with while we served, unless you were in acquisitions. I also found that it was not a fit for what I wanted from a career. True PMPs are very important, but many times I have seen PMPs that are actually admn folks. From my experience most transitioning military really don't understand PMP.

I don't mean to provide doom and gloom, but I feel you are in a rough position. Finish your degree, be creative in your career searches and focus on job that require security clearances.

Damon

Lisa Jackson ⋅ Browns Mills, NJ IBM ⋅ 28 years experience

Congratulations on a job well done Cap'n and welcome to the civilian ranks. I made the same transition in 1995 and the two things that I learned and want to share are to avoid all acronyms. Don't assume that anything in military life makes sense necessarily to a civilian employer. The second thing is everything you have done needs to be "translated" to civilian comparables so that your potential employer has a frame of reference for what your past accomplishments are. When I transitioned I communicated with someone already working in the sector I wanted to break into and had them review my resume, ask questions, and help to rewrite the resume to demilitarize it.
Best of luck and thank you for your service!!

Doug Bohrer ⋅ Northbrook, IL Retired IT Cyber Security and Compliance, USAF 1972-76, MSM 1976 ⋅ 45 years experience

You might want to consider corporate planning or marketing strategy in your education plans. Both of these areas require analyzing what your company's competitors are doing and coming up with counter moves. This is what you have been doing for years.

A PMP is going to have you doing a lot of paperwork on technical projects with folks like me. If you don't enjoy working with technical folks on technical details, it's just going to be a boring job for you. The initial fail rate on the PMP test is very high, like about 70%. Career mobility of PMPs is only about average. In other words, it's a long slog to glory. Before moving in that direction, I would take a really good look at the study materials to see if you would like the work.

Keith Fulton ⋅ South Orange, NJ ⋅ 24 years experience

Civilian companies are in awe of people with backgrounds in military intelligence. Cyber security is a huge and growing field. It pays a lot and gets a lot of respect. You don't have to be the techie hacker to get into this area either. You can be in management, running critical incident response teams, working in vendor management, coordination with law enforcement agencies, or a host of other positions. Many in this field are themselves ex-military and will relate and understand your transition and your skills.

If this area is of any interest to you, you should try to get some exposure to roles like this in your last 3 years, and you'll be able to write your own ticket.

Glenn Keilar ⋅ Ontario, CA California Quality Plastics ⋅ 30 years experience

This is only if I was involved in the Intelligence field ... Cyber security, Cyber security, Cyber security. The next Apple in future employment.
In addition, I would investigate and study everything in this area I could get my hands on.
Agree with Networking, networking, networking. Local groups in this field and ask every question you can think of.
Considering the projected growth in this area I would try to set up a small group to brainstorm an area of focus you enjoy. The networking will bring this area to light.
Ask mentors ... "What areas do you feel will be hot in the next few years". Study, study, study it.
This is from someone who has done the whole gambit of Corporate and Small Business ... small business is more fun, you can cement your talent and worth and it is less competitive. Corporate in crunch time ... aka downturn ... YOU ARE JUST A NUMBER!!!

Michael Del Vecchio ⋅ Killingworth, CT U.S. Army, Staff Sergeant ⋅ 3 years served

Good morning, Nathan

I would advise you to find your passion. What do you want to do for the rest of your life? After I got out of the Army, I went back to industry but felt fulfilled only when I was laid off and started my own businesses. Look around - are you an entrepreneur? After serving in leadership positions, you have the skill set, so take a look at the EBV program here http://ebv.vets.syr.edu/. If not entrepreneurship, I would not waste time in law school, achieving PMP or getting an MBA - take a look in the local reference library for executive recruiters (http://www.kennedyexecutive.com/executive-search/) and see what matches your interest. If you want to talk, I counsel (free) many vets - contact me, we can talk.

David Gilbertson ⋅ San Antonio, TX Hewlett Packard ⋅ 26 years experience

Be careful not to expect similar pay and responsibility. You are starting a new career and yes your experience will demand higher pay, but that should not be your main concern in your transition. Sounds like you are a generalist with stills that would translate to jobs like sales, middle management, or maybe even analytics (depends on your intel skills but think broadly on what your core strength is). I recommend you select your first position based on the opportunity to learn the field and grow. Few getting out of the military keep their first job very long. Consider it a jumping point for your career. Get a foothold, experience, and training in your desired career and you will have plenty of opportunities to move up the ladder with your current or a future employer. Don't be afraid of leaving the nest, you have a military network -- keep it active and they will support you.

Daryl Harrison ⋅ Thurston, NE Harrison WOC Services ⋅ 25 years experience

Nathan,
I tend to advise from a different angle.
1. You have given to your country, remain a patriot and citizen of good standing. You owe nothing and have many benefits coming in return for your service. This is YOUR time.
2. The transition to civilian life can be very rewarding and you have made the correct beginning to your exit plan. (If that's your choice)
3. The single difference between success and failure in life is the ability to plan and execution of that plan. (The plan remains a dynamic work that maintains focus)
4. Plan your work. Work your plan. (Adopt that motto now)
5. Number five is the most critical of all. Do what you love and you will never work again. Read "The Millionaire Next Door". Its a cheap and easy read, and will frame your thoughts for the future.

If this line of thought is of assistance and you wish, I can elaborate upon request.

Charles Coley ⋅ Blowing Rock, NC ⋅ 40 years experience

Nathan,

You father gave you excellent advice and wisdom to guide you in your career!

Your career decision will be much easier if you decide your "life's dream." First ask, "What do I love doing?" "How can I make a living doing the thing I love doing?" Once you have your "life's dream" of doing the thing you love to do, then envision "What you will be doing 10 years from your military retirement." If those dreams are compatible, move forward to establish your career plans to accomplish your "life's dream."

Thousands of Vets decide their "life's dream" is to build and own their own company. If you decide that is your "life's dream," go to www.vettoceo.org. They offer excellent programs to help Vets build their own company.

Use all of your Vets career counseling, educational, and housing benefits to the fullest to give you the foundation to build your "life's dream."

I wish you great success.

Sincerely,
Charles Coley

Bill Wilt ⋅ Somerset, PA Northrop Grumman ⋅ 35 years experience

Nathan, I also retired as a Captain, but from the USAF after 22 years. My extra two years were required to retire at my officer rank (10 years as an officer). I worked for Westinghouse Electric Corporation, which was bought by Northrop Grumman, for 22 years as a manager in Supply Chain Management.

I read through some of the answers/suggestions from other members and the one that caught my eye was law school. If that interest you at all, it sounds like a great suggestion. You will have the GI Bill to help and scholarships are available. Northrop Grumman, and I would assume all defense contractors, i.e. Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, etc, use employees with law degrees in many different management positions.

Networking on social media could be an asset also. Touch base with old friends, high school, college, former military etc. They may now be employed by companies that are hiring and you would have an "in". Also, don't forget the veterans' groups like the American Legion and the VFW. Currently the American people are tuned into appreciating the veterans, ride that wave! A quick Google search will turn up organizations that are there to help you in your transition.

And, lastly, consider staying in the Army. The rank colonel on a resume opens more doors than captain. Most civilians do not understand the military rank structure. They do not appreciate the effort it takes to go from the enlisted to officer. They do know that colonels manage/lead more people than captains - so staying in does carry some weight and of course your retirement would also increase. Good luck and God bless.

Jack Hagopian ⋅ Matthews, NC Bank of America ⋅ 20 years experience

Nathan, don't ever assume you resume is finished. You will be constantly "tweaking it". I would make sure to float it to people working in various industries and let them review it. If you reach out to managers in various fields and make it clear you aren't "looking" for a job just yet most will be willing to assist with your resume. Also, recruiters in various companies might also be able to help you. Start spending time with civilian managers. In the military I used to spend most of my time with others in the military. Look for opportunities in civic organizations, civilian churches or volunteer groups. Use local chapters of professional organizations like APICS, ASQ or PMI. Also, there are some great civilian job search groups, its not too soon to start attending those and making contacts. A lot of those people will find jobs by the time you get out and if you stay in touch you will have contacts on the inside of a few companies.

Jack Hagopian ⋅ Matthews, NC Bank of America ⋅ 20 years experience

Look for local professional organizations you can join or at least attend meetings. You will meet others in your field and get to understand the terminology being used. These meetings also usually have a speaker so you will learn something too. Some organizations like ASQ or PMI will run across virtually all career paths.

Mitchell Brew ⋅ Vienna, VA U.S. Army, Colonel ⋅ 20 years served

- At the 2 year mark try to get your finances straight, This gives time to build up your reserve

- Really do some soul searching on what you want to do. Once you know that you can focus your efforts. Harder than you think.

- Also be aware most jobs fill in a 90 - 120 day window, but move quick inside that window.

Joshua Milam ⋅ Malabar, FL U.S. Army, Master Sergeant ⋅ 21 years served

Nathan-

If you are looking at a career that requires certifications like PMP check out the Army's E-Learning program (https://usarmy.skillport.com/skillportfe/custom/login/usarmy/ login.action). This offers free training programs online that if you look elsewhere can cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars. You will still have to pay for the certification but not for the training program. I'm about 6 months out and am currently half way through the PMP program but wish I would have started years ago to take several other of the certifications offered through the Army with this site.

Joshua

Christianah Adesida ⋅ Lorton, VA U.S. Army, Master Sergeant ⋅ 22 years served

Start working on your resume earlier. This will force you to look out for job description that are out there and learn the language in the civilian workforce. This will also allow you to know what people are looking for and work at it if there is one or two that you're missing before you get out.

Connect with like minded people on LinkedIn and join the group for the career field you want to go into.

Good luck with everything. If you need someone to look over your resume for you I will love to help.

Take care,

Christianah

Thomas Yaroch ⋅ Canton, MI U.S. Army, Major ⋅ 20 years served

Nathan,

I recommend that you stay in the service as long as you can. I retired as a Major with 20.5 years of service in 2011 and I am getting ready to look for a 5th job. The transition after 20 years of service is incredibly difficult and everyday I wake up I wish I was back in the Army uniform. I am currently looking at the MOBCAP Tour of Duty website to try to find a temporary military position.

Having said that, if you are set on getting out I see that you are not restricting yourself to a particular location, that is good. The biggest "pearl of wisdom" I can pass on is to look at your network. See if anyone in your network can recommend you for a position within their organization. That is about the only way I have found to land an interview. If you see problems in this area already I would seriously consider staying in uniform.

Also, remember with defense cuts that the government is not hiring that many civilians. I have applied to probably 50-100 positions on USAJOBs and for the most part just receive an email in the future that says the position is closed. Furthermore, there are numerous applicants for these positions.

Best of luck.

Ray Walter ⋅ Boiling Springs, PA U.S. Army National Guard, Captain ⋅ 15 years served

The field of law enforcement could benefit from your experience. Ever think DEA, FBI, Homeland Security, State Police?

Laurence Schnabel ⋅ Templeton, CA Lewis Brisbois Bisgaard & Smith LLP ⋅ 45 years experience

You might chat with a few JAGC officers to learn what they do and if they feel law school was the right choice. If you score well on the LSAT test and have decent undergrad grades you could be admitted to a good law school ( say one in the top 20 rank of law schools in U.S. News & World report). A law degree opens a lot of doors- County DAs' offices, large law firms with starting salaries of $100-150K. Have a very broad base of knowledge and maturity- which you seem to have- is of great value in practicing law. I am a UCLA Law School grad ( 1967) who then learned how to try cases in the Los Angeles DA's office, then went into private practice with a number of Los Angeles-based civil law firms ; and as a JAGC Navy reservist retired from the Reserve as an O5 (Commander) after starting out as a PVT in the USMC Reserve.
Another idea- contact office of Senator McCain or Graham ( two strong Military supporters) re if their staffs- or the staffs of other U.S. Senators- could use you skills.

William Fuller ⋅ Clifton, VA U.S. Army, Colonel ⋅ 27 years served

Nathan,

Join professional organizations like NDIA and AFCEA now. Most of the defense related orgs allow active duty to join for free or at a significantly reduced rate. Then start attending their functions/meetings. This will enable you to both grow your network and explore potential career paths. The value of the network cannot be overstated. It's the best and most efficient way to finding your next job. Also suggest you subscribe to one of the job boards (ziprecruiter, beyond, ladders to name a few). This will let you see what's out there now and help you zero in on what interests you and what doesn't.

Lynn Seldon ⋅ Oak Island, NC U.S. Army, Captain ⋅ 7 years served

Thanks for your service, Nathan. You're smart to start planning for this next phase in advance. If I have any specific advice, I'll shoot it your way after reading the other answers tonight!

Sic Semper Tyrannis,

Lynn Seldon, VMI '83

Glenn Keilar ⋅ Ontario, CA California Quality Plastics ⋅ 30 years experience

Sorry, but I skimmed your comment. Experience over an MBA ... when needed you can "go get it" and good companies employee education programs will be available. I have ownership in 3 different companies and experience, work ethic history is critical. Do not underestimate military training. Being x-Navy military experiences can be transformed into civilian equivalency easily, especially with professional help ... access may even come under the Military education program.
Other reasons why I am biased to military personnel for management/sales positions ... discipline, attention to direction and completion of task,
Don't underestimate any aspect of your military training.
Glenn ... SoCal

Paul Trejo ⋅ Austin, TX University of Texas at Austin ⋅ 40 years experience

Hi Nathan,

Thanks for your years of service. You appear from your picture to be a young man, having entered the military early in life -- if so, then you do need a re-orientation to civilian life. The advice of veteran Sergeant Meeks here is topical for me, too -- military experience and a dollar buys you a cup of coffee in the civilian world.

The keyword of civilian business is Competition. You might use your military experience to great advantage, but you can't expect everybody to salute your rank anymore. You need a civilian rank -- and even that is subject to Competition.

There are six broad fields of Experience in the civilian job market that are staples, namely: Stockholding, HR, Accounting, Advertising, Sales and Marketing (where Advertising is for future customers, Sales is for present customers, and Marketing is for past customers).

Every company -- no matter what their Product, must manage all six -- and some companies specialize in managing these for larger companies.

If you don't already have experience with these -- plan how to get some. To be a recognized leader in civilian business, you'll need experience in all six departments. To run your own company, you'll need expertise in all six departments (plus your Production department).

If your family has a family business -- that is the most efficient place to begin -- and it helps your family. Otherwise, work for a close friend, if you can. Otherwise, find a solid corporation and start at the BOTTOM, and move from department to department for six years (plus an extra year in the Production department).

Even if you get a business degree, without this experience, leadership will elude you. Or, even if you get an MBA (which is supposed to cover all of this) you'll be expected to specialize in one of these, and fight your way up to management.

Unless you love the military life, you should consider the re-orientation back to civilian life, remembering that the whole reason for our Military institution is to protect our Civilian way of life.

You're right to ponder the Insecurity of Civilian life. Still, getting your wings in Civilian life will give you a feeling of freedom and liberation that cannot be obtained in any other way. It's a very Competitive world -- but you've already proven that you know how to fight. Now is the time to leave the nest and learn to FLY.

You've already shown your leadership skills, Nathan, by testing the waters three full years before you actually make your move. KEEP DOING THAT.

Best wishes,
--Paul Trejo, MA

Glenn Keilar ⋅ Ontario, CA California Quality Plastics ⋅ 30 years experience

With 3 years to go ... make sure you have a degree. This only gets you in the game. Consider that 72% of all employees in the US are working outside their Bachelors area. Top companies just want to know you are trainable, have contributed in the education realm and they will complete the cycle for what they need. Internships are extremely valuable assets in overcoming the experience factor.
Glenn ... SoCal

Glenn Keilar ⋅ Ontario, CA California Quality Plastics ⋅ 30 years experience

My transition from Military to Civilian was done more than 20 years ago but am sure this avenue for the transition hasn't changed. Do a Google search for personnel companies/executive search that specialize in the process ... mine was Bernard Haldane. They trained me in the Art of Interviewing, resume review and company backgrounds to the point that I could take an interviewer ... wherever I wanted. The end results was 5 job offers on the one day ... thankfully of picked the one with the best training over the most $ and then negotiated a higher salary once the Company was "hooked". At the time the cost was $3,000+ ... 20+ years ago ... best $$ I ever have invested.
Also be biased to a company or industry that is growing, can train you for other future opportunities and then consider branching out on your own after experience is gained.

David Poage ⋅ Arlington, VA U.S. Air Force, Colonel ⋅ 26 years served

Starting now, carefully manage your financial affairs so that you can easily weather a six month job search. If it takes less time than that, then you can pay yourself a hiring bonus, but money pressure is one of the biggest reasons people "settle" for a post-military job. Along those lines, identify the things in life that you truly enjoy, then figure out who gets paid well to do those things...or at least find an industry and job where you 'll be connected to those things through your work. Lastly, start talking about your intentions with people who are already doing what you think you want to do...offer to buy lunch for a new acquaintance if they'll share their knowledge and experience about your chosen field. Good luck!

Siobhan Hutchison ⋅ Bedford, NH Staff Hunters ⋅ 3 years experience

Nathan,
Thank You for your service!
I echo all of the truly great advice offered above. In addition I will add this little tid-bit: when it comes time to put together that resume make sure it translates in the civilian world. I have recruited some great veterans but only because I took the time to meet with them and get them to help me drill down to what all those words on their resume actually meant. Most employers don't have those resources.
I would also re-iterate what Seth wrote above network as much as possible as it will get you the best results for the amount of time you invest.
Good luck!

Ali Hoban ⋅ New York, NY AOL ⋅ 5 years experience

Hi Nathan,

Thank you for your service and for joining our ACP AdvisorNet community!

If you haven't already, I'd encourage you to check out ACP's Veteran Mentoring Program (www.acp-usa.org/mentoring) to find a career coach in the civilian sector. We offer free one-on-one yearlong mentorships for post 9-11 veterans to receive guidance from their own personal career coaches from more than 60 leading companies throughout the country.

After applying, you'll be contacted by a member of our staff to set up a short phone interview to discuss the qualities that you're looking for in a Mentor. We then hand-pick a Mentor based on your goals for your mentorship and the questions you have regarding your transition. Veterans typically work with their Mentors on various goals such as crafting a résumé, preparing for an interview or researching the types of roles that you would enjoy doing in the civilian sector.

Please feel free to check out our website for more information: http://acp-usa.org/Mentoring or send me a message with any questions you have about ACP's programs.

Bill Nobles ⋅ Basking Ridge, NJ Exxon ⋅ 30 years experience

Nathan, thank you for your service. Your move into the private sector is a perfect time to self-assess your aptitudes, capabilities, and interests--an exercise that has provided new ideas about opportunities for other veterans. My April 2013 posting "What are best tools for veterans to self-assess their aptitude, capabilities, and interests?" provided a number of free/low cost tools to consider. Other postings have recently added to this list.
Good luck, Bill Nobles

Nathan Trotter ⋅ Harker Heights, TX U.S. Army, Captain ⋅ 19 years served

Hello everyone. I don't know if the generous people who responded to my posts are still active here, but thought I'd give a quick update.

I am still planning to retire in 2019. This, despite the fact that I am very competitive for promotion to major in the 2018 MAJ board. Priorities have changed (family first, don't want to be separated again for a year for deployment from them).

I will be retiring out of a company command position in an HHC and I think that might help, hopefully. As I posted in a different question (are companies willing to train us) I have tentatively narrowed my focus to the security management/cyber security field or entering the customs and border patrol or state department.

I am somewhat at a crossroads, the state department and border patrol want a graduate degree, and security a management/cyber security want certifications. Unfortunately (?) my BS is intelligence studies, and doesn't have any of the hard technical applications I need.

I'll keep this updated as I go along this path. Is it better to just start a. Ew question or continue on this post?

Thank you again for all of the information and advice, it has helped to focus my goal planning.

Nathan Trotter ⋅ Harker Heights, TX U.S. Army, Captain ⋅ 19 years served

Some great advice, thank you everyone! Apologies for the time since my last reply, its QTB week... I really wish i could reply directly to people's comments. I am replying from my Ipad so i cant go back and forth to confirm names.

I had looked at law enforcement, but i didn't think i would be competitive due to my age.

I have also given some serious issues thought to just staying in as long as possible, but something my father told me keeps driving me to get out of my "comfort zone". He said, "if your job becomes easy, boring or simply not challenging, ie just punching a ticket, then do something new that is outside of you're comfort zone. If you're nervous, uncertain and wondering if you will do well, then that is where you should be." I have applied this throughout my life and it has held me in good stead, maybe some sleepless nights and increased stress, but I can definately say it keeps me on my toes.

Regarding the VA, thank you! I need as much advice as possible on this aspect, i havent gone to sick call a whole lot during my career... Chronically healthy...

Nathan Trotter ⋅ Harker Heights, TX U.S. Army, Captain ⋅ 19 years served

Thank you everyone! I find that I am leaning toward a leadership/management career field rather than a technical field. My biggest concern is that if I were to leave the intel field and enter corporate America, my lack of experience in specific areas of expertise (ie anything other than intel work) will prevent me from being employed at a similar level (and pay) that I am currently working at.

@ Mr. Lynch: I honestly have no real preference where I work aside form wanting to avoid the South East USA (FT Polk brings back many not so great memories...).

As an aside, I used to wonder why people would stay in the military past their 20 year mark if they weren't going to be promoted past a certain level of rank. Now that I am confronting the prospect of leaving the field that I have been institutionalized in for most of my adult life I understand the safety nest that staying in represents...