Andrew Jarvis ⋅ Chicago, IL Twisted Media ⋅ 14 years experience

I worked at a company that would buy used IT equipment for the best deal possible, refurbish it, and then sell it for the best deal possible. The owner, Bob, was a big sales guy. He would go to seminars and had almost an obsession with the strategy behind negotiation.

Working there changed my life in some small (but very positive) ways, and one outcome is that any time I go into salary negotiations for a new job, or look to get a raise, I return to the articles by Roger Dawson that Bob would make everyone in the company read (well, anyone who would ever have contact with customers).

I give them to you now. All of them, I compiled them (just now, for you! though I'm sure I'll keep passing this around to other vets) in one shared Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jE_naV7F2xhobY6-53Yfj-TPKbUE6PTAT0p89DWhjNE

I guarantee if you read even one or two of these articles your perspective on the negation will change for the better and you'll feel a LOT more confident.

Joe Paschall ⋅ Madison, AL nLogic, LLC ⋅ 26 years experience

If you lack specific job experience relevant to the job, you will be lucky to get an offer at all, much less trying to negotiate upward. This is an issue with many veterans whose experience is great, but not matching up well with the specific qualifications. The trick is trying to find a position that matches up well to your experience- one where you cover ALL the specified requirements with little experience beyond them. This is the position that will maximize your salary. Otherwise you are trying to negotiate to get the company to pay for something they do not need and may not be able to use (your extra experience).

Mary Stern ⋅ Santa Barbara, CA Baxter Healthcare ⋅ 30 years experience

First thing to understand is the salary range. You can "market price" the job and factor in your experience. If you have facts, it is easier to negotiate for the salary that you think you deserve. One way to market price the job is to look at Monster or Indeed for similar jobs. They often have salaries or ranges. There are other things that you can negotiate like vacation, work hours, some benefits and the ability to work remotely. You can also check LookingGlass.com to see what current employees say about the company, salaries and benefits. Good luck with your job search.

Maureen Devane ⋅ Purchase, NY PepsiCo ⋅ 25 years experience

I agree with Mary Stern that understanding the salary range in your field, level and market are critical to negotiating your optimal salary. In addition to the sources she mentioned, there are also industry associations that have salary guides for your specific job type. Good luck with your negotiation!

john finney ⋅ Palatine, IL Oce ⋅ 20 years experience

one method is to build into your starting salary a step stone clause where you both agree that if still employed after 3 months, and are doing a nice job (need to qualify that), then you will get a $5,000 bonus, same after 6 mos...this is a win/win deal so long as you agree on terms of what is "nice/great" which could be as simple as "acceptable" whereas they want you to stay. This way they will know what they're paying for (your value was delivered) before they commit.

Chris Wickers ⋅ Santa Maria, CA Wickers Insurance Agency ⋅ 10 years experience

Hi Carlos,

One negotiation technique that has served me well was taught to me by my mentor at my first civilian job. He was a brilliant attorney, and it was very simple. It applies to virtually any negotiation.

Start your negotiation a bracket above (or below if you are on the other side of the table) what your intuition tells you. For instance, let's say you are negotiating a salary. They will ask you what your desired amount is. Most people will not want to be too pushy and reply with an amount they think the person on the other side of the table will go for. But with most negotiations, pretty much any number you give them will be countered with a lower number.

By raising your initial offer outside your comfort zone on every negotiation, you shift the brackets of the negotiation upward, so that your final agreed upon number is higher..in other words, you force their counter offer to be higher. Its hard to do this at first, or if you have no leverage, but I have always done it with everything I negotiated..from jobs, cars, homes, etc...and I've surprised myself with the outcome on a few occasions.

On the second part of your question regarding experience. My feeling is always go in confident and always push the envelope, it shows you are confident and believe in yourself. Your experiences, although not specific to the job, are what makes you a good candidate, otherwise you would not even be applying. Associate each of your experiences to the job in a way that they can understand....Example: My service in the Army has given me an incredible ability to work as a member of a team and to be focused on a mission through to its completion. If hired, I would take that same focus and apply it to XYZ Manufacturing's goal of widget production in the following specific ways....

David Eastman ⋅ Gresham, OR Gamma Therapeutics, Inc. ⋅ 35 years experience

Carlos,

The truth is, most people undersell themselves and ask for a salary below the range they should be in. Part of that is the thought that they did not want to come across as overly pushy or aggressive. Deep six that thought from the get go. You need to go in with high confidence in your abilities, and most importantly, your value and ask for what you are worth. Now, how do you know what you are worth? I have always found that salary.com is useful in giving you a range to ask for. And I say a range, because having a single number actually works against you. If you want $48,000 thousand a year, use that as your low and add $6000 or $7000 to it as the high, and then negotiate the mid range which would be around $52,000 leaving the $48,000 as the lowest you will accept. A lot of employers have a number in mind and so let them tell you the number first, without you giving away your number or negotiation position. Employers want to bring you in at the best, most cost-effective price they can; not bad if they are offering you less than you are worth. Knowing the marketplace with sites like salary.com or asking other people in the field what they make, will place you in a good, solid negotiating position.

Never under sell yourself. Your skills are too valuable and employers, if they really want you, will give you what you want.

DAVID
Former, US Navy Avionics

Keith Fulton ⋅ South Orange, NJ ⋅ 24 years experience

I will add that for many jobs, companies won't really negotiate. What they offer is a function of what you made before and what their range is for the position. If you try to negotiate, make it fact-based as opposed to just chiseling because you want more. The facts could be references to public websites others have mentioned, costs of living in a new place, differences in commission or bonus rates, lack of 401k match or whatever, but facts will be more convincing and wI'll make you seem smart, even if you don't get much out of it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are a few other levers to negotiate with, depending on the seniority of the role, such as bonus %, amount of signing bonus, stock or option awards, equalizing you for walking away from unvested equity in your current company, weeks of vacation allowed each year, and so on.

And I would say for any role at a director level or higher, the company will be surprised if you do NOT counter their offer. It's expected. You may get something out of it or not, but they won't be offended.

Judy Tomlinson ⋅ Richardson, TX Energy Future Holdings ⋅ 30 years experience

CareerBuilder.com has a salary function that helps you determine the typical salary for your field. Of course, jobs on the East or West coast pay more because of the higher cost of living. Most job applications ask your salary expectations. Be prepared. I always give a salary range, if possible. If in doubt, add a statement to your cover letter that says "my salary expectations are $________ - $_________ but are negotiable based on the benefits package offered."

Peter Carruth ⋅ Sacramento, CA Strato Communications, Inc - Former USAF ⋅ 15 years experience

Regarding the following: "Roger Dawson
One of the cardinal rules of Power Negotiating is that you should ask the other side for more than you expect to get. Henry Kissinger went so far as to say, "Effectiveness at the conference table depends upon overstating one's demands." "

Totally different when your negotiating from past performance and from the strongest country in the world, than coming out of the service with no business past performance / experience / expertise.

Do your research for comparable positions in your region - it the average starting is 75k, take it. If they ask what your range is, give them the average and that you done your research. State something in the area of your former experience and past performance in the service, draw a parallel to what the position is and build a case: short, sweet and to the point.

Further point out you are willing to take a cut off the average (pending how the conversation goes), and request a 9-120 evaluation for a raise.

Pending profession, can take a year to three to become proficient - ultimately, a position has to generate 4x the rate of the positions wage / salary due to running/operating a firm.

Amy Goley ⋅ Edmond, OK 2 Marine Holdings ⋅ 15 years experience

QUANTIFY. That is all you need to do to show an ROI for whatever you are asking for. Below is a letter I wrote for a client that might help you out. If you notice, at no point to I try to leverage other offers, etc. It is done under the assumption that he will see the benefit of bringing this man on and the value he will add and the difference in compensation will cease to be an obstacle. In this case, by showing the additional skills he was able to bring to a new company, and offering to add them to his job description for a time, essentially the company was able to save themselves an additional hire for the initial ramp up year.

Hope it helps!!

Dear Mark,

I am very excited by your offer to join the Sxxxxx team. I find the position and future opportunities to be challenging, yet tailored to my abilities.

As you know, I am certain I can favorably affect your firm’s bottom line. My field experience combined with my management and training skills will assist you in quality, speed, and reduction of turn-over.

For this reason, I am confident that we can orchestrate a mutually-beneficial and prosperous arrangement. Having learned a great deal more about Sxxxxx during our interview, I have a clear vision as to where I will fit into and how I can contribute to the firm’s future profits. Since I believe firmly in my abilities as they apply to this position I would like to negotiate the terms in a way that has less impact on my family and livelihood as to allow me the freedom to focus completely on the task at hand; growing the business in the field via client relationships and training a team of service experts to do it.

I am very happy with the base salary offer of $96,000/yr and know that in the coming years, as we grow, the bonus and interest options will be exponential. My current income is about $35000 higher (I am enclosing my last 2 pay stubs). Obviously, with more responsibility and potential, I understand a need to ramp up your base salaries in keeping with your profit growth. However, because of the initial need for assistance in developing an across-the-board hiring, training, and safety process I believe that I have found a solution that will increase your offering while still potentially saving you overall. Below is the proposed 1st year additional job functions and compensation I would like you to review and consider.

 Base salary and proposed bonus structure will remain as offered as well as all field supervisory functions
 An additional role of Field Training Director (or equivalent) will be added to my title and compensated separately for the period of one year. At the end of year one, the initial work to build our training will be fundamentally complete and we will assess whether the role still constitutes additional compensation or if my primary workload will roll to the Field in more of a developmental Management role because our business need and client list will have grown. At that time, I will return to a base + bonus pay structure. The additional first year duties I will offer in exchange are:
 I will assist in the standardizing of training, the writing of the training materials, and setting up a graduated schedule of certifications for our field staff
 I will assist in developing some pre-hire testing for entry-level candidates that will allow us to assess core skills that will be valuable in the field (ie mechanical, electrical, and soft skills/behavioral).
 The potential benefits of this addition to the position in terms of ROI:
 Savings of $15-$20K annually on each identifiable entry-level candidate versus experienced in terms of salary. Additionally, employees that we train will be more vested and less likely to turn-over as well as less risk of prior bad habits and training that cause injuries in field situations
 Potential savings in terms of Workers Compensation and Auto insurance by having a dedicated internal POC to develop training in compliance with their standards
 Identifying just 10 FSTs with the capabilities of experienced hands and training them will save approximately $175,000 in year 1. Losing one less employee in year one (lost labor, recruiting, onboarding, and training) will save $25K,1 less insurance claim averaging $25K, or OSHA violation averaging $15K. Total savings of an estimated $240K

In terms of compensation for the additional duties, I would respectfully like to request that my first year salary be off-set by just 10% of the potential value of the role, or $24,000 (Total base salary year 1 pre-bonus of $120K). I feel that you are on the right track by focusing on the development of a solid and safe culture while still in the ramp-up stages and by having a portion of my salary dedicated to helping you reach those objectives, the additional time and resources I will need to allocate toward building our team will not be seen as a burden to my family or affect my current budget in a negative way.

I look forward to speaking with you soon. Again, I cannot tell you how very excited I am about potentially being a part of what Sxxxxx is building and look forward to completing the next steps toward making it official. Thank you for your consideration of this offer and your faith in my abilities to get the job done for you.

Sincerely,

Jim Davis ⋅ Tallahassee, FL Michael Baker International ⋅ 20 years experience

Salary discussions are an art. Is there a rule of thumb? Not that I know of but 10%-15% is a figure I would use. As an employer, a person who is too aggressive about salary appears to be more worried about the $ and not joining my team. Having said this, the job offer and resulting negotiation is the best time to get the $ especially in large companies with a fixed job classification and pay range system. Small companies are more flexible. Personally I expect some negotiations but not too aggressive. Look for other opportunities like an extra week's vacation or some guaranteed training.

Ashutosh Mehta ⋅ Edison, NJ ⋅ 16 years experience

Carlos,

Glassdoor.com is a good website which will give you details about salary range for the position, review about company, sr. management etc. which may be vital factors in your decision.

Based on my experience, there is no set rule for jump while changing the job. It all depends on who needs what and how soon they need. Also, it depends on location. A job in New York may pay different than in Florida. Also, LinkedIn is a friend while researching the trend.

Good luck.

Carlos Castillo ⋅ Fort Drum, NY U.S. Army, Private First Class ⋅ 6 years served

Thank you all for all this crear advice. Additionally, I wanted to bring up what I have encountered through headhunters and recruiters. Sometimes they will tell you of a position and upfront tell you the range in which they job pays. Given that they tell this information upfront, does anyone have any advice to improving the chances to increasing a salary?

This has happened to me several times already, where there is a set salary for the position. Additionally, I've been offered to interview for an unclear position (basically: here is the job title, come in to interview and we'll tell you more) and on the spot be offered for a position in which I did not know how much they pay.

What are some experiences or examples where there have been a change of heart or reasons to increasing one's salary?

What can be recommended when given an upfront offer to a position that was unclear before the interview? (I feel employers use this as leverage sometimes; as if take the job now, or we cannot hire you)

I think it's important to address these issues during the interview process and learn how others may have dealt with these similar situations.

Thank you all.

Gay Weatherly-Roberts ⋅ Berkeley Heights, NJ AIG ⋅ 27 years experience

Review position description requirements first, view the job title and then seek the salary ranges for the positions in various industries, insurance, banking, etc. at the beginning of your job search. Understand that it is a range. Get the offer and then negotiate. Do not focus on money until the very end.

Allan Kuhl ⋅ Brimley, MI Hewlett Packard ⋅ 18 years experience

Never focus on Money until the very end. Sell yourself, make sure they see the value of your brand. Get the offer and then push the envelop. Have a good explanation as to why you think the starting salary could be higher. Remember, they will probably have to get approval for higher salary. Give them the needed justification in your value or explanation. If you can't explain it, neither will they.

Jerry Welsh ⋅ Middleville, MI Master Military Transition Advisor/HPS GPO ⋅ 30 years experience

Do your research and since no one mentioned these I will careeronestop and BLS.GOV These two sites are easy to navigate and you can take your career to a county level. Glassdoor.com was mentioned and adds to the process. I also suggest pulling a number of job postings off the mega sites and use just sheer data. You always want to quantify where you are going, be sure that salary meets your needs. Negotiating is not done until after you have the offer of course. You should not be wasting your time applying for positions that you hope you will negotiate into-plan on lower end of a range with applying. Keep in mind if you want high end of the range, the next move for you may be another title-that may not be open.

Jon Sunray ⋅ Fairfax, VA SolRay, LLC ⋅ 35 years experience

Carlos, I think you've received good advice from a number of mentors on this site. I can add a few additional tidbits. Rephrasing some of the previous advice, you want to start by understanding the salary range for similar jobs in your field and geographic area. Remember that geography often plays a big role. Empower yourself with information about the company that you can add to your advantage. Fully understand its mission, products, and character. The more understanding and effort you demonstrate in the company or organization from which you are seeking employment, the more attractive you will appear as a potential employee. Enthusiasm and going a little extra in the initiative area will help differentiate you from others. You want to come across as real and focus on your personal strengths (leadership, communications, reliability, respect) that mark you as a veteran. As a rule of thumb, I don't see a problem asking for 10% above the offer, but, first, make sure the hiring process knows who you are, and not just what you've done. In the end, your qualifications AND your person AND your value to the future of the organization are what will land you the job.

Best wishes and remember you have attributes that few others can claim - you served our nation with character, integrity, and commitment!

Dennis Santare ⋅ Garden City, NY U.S. Marine Corps, Captain ⋅ 10 years served

Bring data. Use salary.com or another service to understand what others have been paid for similar roles. It's normally about the position itself and not necessarily the extras you might bring to the table unless you can convince the person hiring you (not HR...the person who is to be your leader) that the position should be broadened to leverage your extras.
Once you have good numbers in mind, go in higher than those numbers and don't settle for less than the benchmarks. All new vets must remember that their first salary basically sets their compensation trajectory unless they can radically change course through a career change, degree, etc. "Where are you at today on compensation?" is one of the first questions you get asked when interviewing. That's why you need to bring data and not settle for less than benchmark for the role.

Carlos Castillo ⋅ Fort Drum, NY U.S. Army, Private First Class ⋅ 6 years served

Thank you all for participating and responding to my question. As for many veteran encountering issues similar to mine, I think it's all like Chris Wicker's recommendation - having lots of confidence - simple as that. Maureen Devane mentioned the importance of knowing the salary range of your job, and like many of you mentioned about researching and being prepared with understanding the dynamics of what is being asked.

Experience and qualities you can bring as an individual needs to be clear to them. Ken Larson mentions how important is to come up with 5 to 10 skills you have that would benefit the company during negotiation. I think this tip is crucially portant. Self-assessment regarding what you can bring and what you can provide (change, improved leadership, better processes, supportive reasons, etc.). Everyone's advice has been excellent and perfectly describes what it takes to improve the probabilities of increasing salaries.

This will definitely help me during my alternatives with what to do and how to build the confidence I need when encountering salary questions.

Thank you all.